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Old project-FRESH start ;)
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Message
Posted
Much easier I find, is to work on a neutral ground rather than white - giving a degree of unity over the whole painting. Then start by building up your darkest tonal values first… eye sockets are generally included here and bone structure.
Colour can be treated pretty much as secondary in oils in the early stages, (to a degree of course), unless you’re using the glazing technique from the outset of course.
Leaving carefully constructed ‘cut-outs’ for the features as you are doing is alien to me and not something that I was taught at college, live demo’s I’ve seen or in any of the many books I have on painting the human figure - however, I accept that there are no hard and fast rules on painting and I have no doubt that the finished painting will be excellent!
Edited
by Alan Bickley
Posted
Interesting comment from Alan - it's a different way of working; not from a careful drawing, unless I've misunderstood him, but an organic progression from broad shapes, which - not that I've ever been a portraitist primarily - is the way I tend to work. Otherwise, you tend to find yourself just filling-in, which takes a lot of the pleasure out of manipulating paint.
It would be rewarding, I think, to pursue this theme further - I have certainly produced portraits using glazing, but not really 'serious' ones: it was always an experiment, and I DID map out the drawing, so far as I could, before glazing colour over it; I don't think this is necessary - i.e. I think you can lay down broad shapes, glaze over them, and still refine.
But - at 72! - I'm still learning how to paint portraits .... well, it keeps you going: it would be interesting to learn how others approach this.
Posted
A response, thank you Robert… I’ve never been particularly interested in glazing, either for landscape or portrait painting.
It’s not my style, apart from the time it takes between glazes, I’m not interested in creating that smooth finish, I’m always looking for brush marks to be present or knife marks of course. Painterly is the word!
It’s a less fashionable style of course than it was in the 15th century, where glazing was generally the norm!
What I’m getting at in my earlier comment, and I’m in no way criticising the method, but this way of cutting round (not literally) all the features and then working on them separately… It’s not the way I’ve been taught and I don’t know of any professional portrait painters that adopt this way of working!
Blocking in the main shapes and tones etc is standard practice in the main, working over the whole canvas! Neither is it a good idea to start off with a single eye etc… I’ve seen that done on here in a demo!
Marjorie paints some excellent portraits and I’d like her feedback also.
Posted
Leaving carefully constructed ‘cut-outs’ for the features as you are doing is alien to me and not something that I was taught at college.
Thank you so much Alan for your comment in here.
I know you may be confused following my approach, but please remember I'm not an artist, I have no any art education, no nothing really.
Because of above, I have no barriers to do weird things, and thus I'm unconscious if I'm doing anything improperly - I simply don't know things Alan.
The first thing to mention in here is the cigar...
I was given a cigar, but I'm not smoking, so it ended up on the fireplace's top as an decoration sort off ;)
It's been leftover there for very long time, for a year I think...
One day I asked my wife - don't you mind me if I try it?
I did pick up that cigar and have had lighten it like a common cigarette, and tried to mimic cigar smoking as seen on TV...
Not inhaling though, I knew I shouldn't ;)
I got interested then, what actually is it cigar, how it's made, how to enjoy it properly, lighten it up etc.
You can compare my poor painting routine to that example Alan.
I have a brush, canvas and paint - but my approach is very chaotic really.
Therefore I'm very appreciated for your keen comment, and for your opened mind, and respect to my efforts, even though it's far away from the standards in oil painting.
Thank you.
Posted
But - at 72! - I'm still learning how to paint portraits .... well, it keeps you going: it would be interesting to learn how others approach this.
Thank you Robert again for taking a part in conversation ;)
Your last words I can easily compare to myself.
I'm 51 next June, I'm practicing drawing/painting for nearly 8 years, but I do not dare call myself an artist, as I'm keep practicing, experimenting, learning on mistakes etc.
I think I'll never be ready to say I am an artist, as being artist means to me knowing what I'm doing, but I don't, lol ;)
I'm just continuously experimenting with different approaches, and I never know what is the right way, as I'm freely choosing within available techniques, to use those that suits me at the moment ;)
Edited
by PogArt MasSter
Posted
Blocking in the main shapes and tones etc is standard practice in the main, working over the whole canvas! Neither is it a good idea to start off with a single eye etc… I’ve seen that done on here in a demo!
Well...
The more I'm thinking of my weird painting approach, the more I'm aware of the mess I'm causing inside the mind of professional artists Alan.
I can see a great lack of education in my case.
It's seems like I'm riding the horse sitting backwards, and believing I'm gonna win the race...
All your comments are very appreciated my friends Alan and Robert - thanks to you I'm aware of bigger picture of what I'm doing...
Thank you!
Posted
Thanks for your reply Art, it’s developing into an interesting topic, even if only myself and Robert have contributed!
As I said early, I’m not criticising your approach in any way - there is no right or wrong way in art.
Your finished product is of a very high standard in my opinion, albeit not a style that I would wish to adopt because basically it doesn’t stir my emotions … as I said previously, my approach to painting could be viewed more as ‘direct painting’ which equates to‘painterly’
Posted
Leaving carefully constructed ‘cut-outs’ for the features as you are doing is alien to me and not something that I was taught at college. Alan B ”……please remember I’m not an artist….” Eg a trained artist, but then neither am I POG and nor are many people on this site, so nothing to worry about there. But I’m very interested in how other artists tackle a subject and how it turns out - if I like the result I have a go. This is going to be difficult to explain….I like “ depth” in a portrait and so I like lost and found edges, I might “ cut in” at points - I have to identify these points as I paint and so I constantly adjust. I suppose the painting is “ fluid” as it’s happening. I also work on “ the whole”, not a small area at a time. At the very beginning I identify positions ( where I want the figure to lie on the canvas) and then I draw loosely with a brush, using a very thin mix of paint and thinner which can be washed out etc. As Robert and Alan have both mentioned, a “ painterly” result is the aim, one where you may see brushstrokes or build up of paint. Of course there are varying levels of this - Lucian Freud to John Singer Sargent, so different but “painterly”. I’m just telling you how I paint, POG. I approach painting in a different way to how I do a detailed drawing. It works for me and it might be worth having a go at a different approach - though I’m not saying you won’t still get exasperated 🥴, you will! Thank you so much Alan for your comment in here. I know you may be confused following my approach, but please remember I'm not an artist, I have no any art education, no nothing really. Because of above, I have no barriers to do weird things, and thus I'm unconscious if I'm doing anything improperly - I simply don't know things Alan. The first thing to mention in here is the cigar... I was given a cigar, but I'm not smoking, so it ended up on the fireplace's top as an decoration sort off ;) It's been leftover there for very long time, for a year I think... One day I asked my wife - don't you mind me if I try it? I did pick up that cigar and have had lighten it like a common cigarette, and tried to mimic cigar smoking as seen on TV... Not inhaling though, I knew I shouldn't ;) I got interested then, what actually is it cigar, how it's made, how to enjoy it properly, lighten it up etc. You can compare my poor painting routine to that example Alan. I have a brush, canvas and paint - but my approach is very chaotic really. Therefore I'm very appreciated for your keen comment, and for your opened mind, and respect to my efforts, even though it's far away from the standards in oil painting. Thank you.
Posted
I like your analogy between your painterly way and the cigar, Pog.
You have always said your approach is experimental and it is interesting to read how you move along.
All through the history of art there have been differing methods when composing art.
You are no different, Pog, keep doing what you do, you are enjoying the process your way.
Happy painting :)
Posted
As I said early, I’m not criticising your approach in any way - there is no right or wrong way in art.
Alan Bickley on 30/12/2022 09:43:58
It's alright Alan, I'm fully aware you are far away from critique in here, neither giving me an advice what I should do.
You've made yourself very clear ;)
I'm very after photorealistic arts, as I was always impressed by making an art, that's difficult to distinguish whether it's a photo or painting(drawing).
But I'm far away from making photocopies, as this is not an art any more, but mechanical approach rather.
I'm giving myself a freedom to follow my personal intuition.
Anyway this painting of my wife is too challenging.
Lack of practice regarding colour mixing is very prominent.
This is not a painting, but great effort of not to ruin it rather.
Posted
Marjorie Firth on 30/12/2022 09:48:32
Thank you dear Marjorie for your input in here too ;)
There's probably many different ways to follow, and there's the main stream of acceptance.
I'm watching tutorials, but picking up the information that suits me best.
Unfortunately it's leads me nowhere sometimes, so I'm ending up with nothing really, but some unnecessary worthless experience ;)
Let's see what I may learn on this portraiture ;)
Thank you Marjorie.
Posted
You have always said your approach is experimental.
That's right Carol, I'm just going my way, not necessarily proper way, lol ;)
Sometimes it cost me my efforts, and the time wasted, as I'm learning on the go ;)
This way of painting is new to me as well, I bet I did mention it before.
I'm just giving it a go, to see whether it'll teach me some or not at all ;)
I would have enjoy the process of this approach much more, but lack of skills to mix the paint is a big pin in my *** in here ;)
Thank you Carol for encouragement!