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Using the Zorn palette for the first time
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Message
Posted
Thank you both Marjorie and Alan. I was always told that Payne’s grey and blacks in general were largely to be avoided, but so use black occasionally as you can mix some quite useful greens with. Black and yellow. Back to the drawing board, I will check what I have and do some experimenting.
Incidentally Marjorie your paintings of your granddaughter are lovely and yes I can see a touch of alizarin there.
Thanks again.
Posted
Tessa - Alizarin Crimson (PR 83) is well known not to be lightfast - particularly used in glazes, or as tints with white. It's actually less lightfast than the colour (Rose Madder Genuine) it was supposed to replace. Most manufacturers (and the ASTM ratings) give it a low permanence status - one claims it to be permanent, and that's Michael Harding; he argues that his Alizarin is so free of stabilizers and so much stronger in depth (and all those other words makers use) than regular Alizarin: great respect for Harding, but great scepticism nonetheless. It's a pity, because it's a useful colour, but having had the experience of watching it go a dingy brown in a test sheet, I hardly ever use it, and recommend various alternatives depending on what you're up to: these include Cadmium Red Deep; Winsor Red - an interesting red, which sort of moves between scarlet and crimson - both of these being opaque; and PV 19, variously described as Permanent Rose, Quinacridone Violet, or just Rose - it's not a direct substitute for Alizarin, but it is transparent, and can be darkened by using the complementary colour (Pthalo green or Viridian - that rumbling noise you hear is Syd Edward, who loathed both of them).
I used to avoid black and Payne's Grey as well - and have yet to try Alan's Blue-Black. Unfortunately, the one you've got (Lamp Black) is one of the least satisfactory - it'll be in sets, because it's cheap to make. It has a brownish undertone, needs to be ground in a lot of oil, and that has implications if you use it in lower layers - i.e. it can (I don't say will) cause cracking. Ivory Black is a better bet, and some swear by Mars Black, which is probably more stable, as a synthetic colour. Payne's ..... in watercolour maybe, though I don't like it in any form; nothing wrong with it though, it's just a personal dislike - grey is all too easy to mix by accident, I don't want it ready-made in a tube..... I certainly wouldn't discourage it, just because I have trouble handling it.
Just remembered I once or twice used Lamp Black in watercolour - seemed to work fine there, but I don't trust it in oil.
Posted
I only use watercolour paints , very rarely I use ivory black but find it over powering. I do like Payne’s Grey and use it a lot on its own or mixed for dark greens etc , I find it work well with other colours for shadows , shades or even a fine wash over a area .
But then a lot of people don’t like to use it and avoid it , it’s good that we all have different ideas.
Posted
Many thanks Robert for the detail again. Just to lob another grenade into the fire, I should mention I am currently using water mixable oils so there may well be a little discrepancy in colour etc due to this.
I still have a stash of ‘real oils’ of various makes and intend to dive into them again sometime soon.
Posted
I do keep coming back on this, you'd think I was an obsessive or something, but I just noticed Marjorie's comment on Payne's Grey - of the two often to be found versions, the W & N one (in watercolour anyway) is noticeably more blue than the D-R version - either fine in their way and according to the effect you're after of course: I suspect the W & N one probably makes brighter greens, be that your objective.
