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Is it the paint or is it the painter.
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Message
Posted
This thread went off on this particular tangent when Sylvia referred to “that dreaded word so beloved by amateur artists ‘COPYING’”. The word “amateur” can be used in a pejorative sense and, in such a case therefore, Bari and others would be justified in suspecting an elitist view was being expressed that “real artists” do not copy from photographs. There are other aspects of painting on which contributors to this forum can be a bit ‘sniffy’ (Bob Ross immediately springs to mind), but they should remember that we amateurs are painting for our own enjoyment and not to please them. We are not trying to produce work to sell; we derive as much satisfaction from the process of painting as from the finished work itself, so the methods, materials or inspiration we employ to achieve that satisfaction are our own affair.
Edited
by Trevor Johnson
Posted
There can be as much discussion over this subject as there can about the state of the economy. Like politics there are different parties and different view , and the ever ongoing argument about who is right. In the end does it really matter ,surely the point is that we are all creating art , no matter how we get there. We will always have the purists and then the people who don’t mind diluting it to suit there needs and likes. I personally fall into the dilution camp, and happily admit that undue us photos or parts of photos , my own when and where possibilities. It’s down to my needs and choice I I want to and need to paint to satisfy my interest , I need to use photos because of the things I paint I cannot see any other way. I choose to take photos mostly
because of physical problems of being out in the damp and cold , so a photo and a sketch of possible and back into the warmth . Unfortunately it not only a winter thing so I don’t often paint on site unless it really warm and I can reach there.
So let’s just accept that some do use photos and some don’t , but let’s enjoy what we do and a lot of you are very good at.
Also let’s enjoys a painting if we like and make a positive comment if you do, no matter if it was sourced from a photo or not ,
Happy painting session to you all and great paintings for us all to see. Thought just come to mind would the great masters have used a camera if they were available to them ?. My bet is some would and the debate would have gone on for centuries and still might.
Posted
In reply to a Alan , I was typing when you posted your comment Alan , I totally agree. I have seen some good painting done recently with quite cheap paint and other that I know have used expensive one that are not as good . To me it’s the artist not the paint although I do thing better quality certainly help with the look and probably the lightfastness etc.
Posted
To Paul, re the masters, as Hockney set out to prove in his book "Secret Knowledge", yes they used Camera Lucida/ Obscura.
I'm happy to be a brand new amateur and remain so. I'm retired and so very glad I don't have to do it for money ( ie to please other eyes which see the world differently to me)
I have a selection of photographs I took from the last 20 years or so of landscapes admired during UK walking holidays. I was always less than happy with the photographs, so perhaps having a bash at painting some of them, I might get to what I actually saw/felt at the time.
Posted
Some good positive comments on here yes we all have our own opinions and do what we want the way that we want.
Though the name Bob Ross does send me into paroxysms of rant….would you believe .I’m quite safe , I’m quite small but don’t give me a knife.
My husband would watch him with complete fascination and we did have the odd difference of opinion about him.
Sam says be nice Sylvia.
Complete change of subject he and I have his books proofs to read this afternoon.
Posted
I don't think anyone has said - and I've gone back through the thread - don't use photos. If I prefer to use my own - and I don't always, because my mobility is limited and I find it difficult to get out and about nowadays - it's only because I'm more likely to remember the 'feel' of a place (as Ellen suggests) - but if others take photos of areas well-known to me, I'll certainly use them (with their permission) as a basis for a painting.
It would be elitist to say don't use a camera; and 'copying' is a slightly different point anyway - I think Justin has been stung by a particular phrase: but I doubt that anyone on this forum thinks themselves as part of an elite: I'd love to join an elite, but none will have me...... Anyway, as Justin has correctly said, those who see our work aren't interested in the process by which we made it, generally speaking - the ones who irritate me are those who ask the 'where's that then?' question: you know their next line, should you tell them, is going to be 'doesn't look just like it though, does it?'.
Well I hope not, no.
Posted
Someone very very close to me has asked me to 'copy' a photograph of her father holding his newly born grandson. He's been diagnosed with terminal cancer and so the photograph is an extremely poignant image, absolutely heart breaking. She wants me to draw this image as she feels it's 'more personal and will say more' than the 'quick snap' that she herself took.
Many have commented on this site that 'simply copying' a photographic image is not art, or that it's pointless, or easy, or in the case of portraits, the end product can be lifeless and flat and so on. I don't agree but then I use photographs so I wouldn't would I. I don't profess to being a 'proper' artist, just someone who enjoys doing what I do but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Posted
I’m sure you will make your friend a lovely portrait Russell . I also commented in using a photograph of my husband myself . As Robert said I don’t think anyone has said not to use them. My comments were my own, and for reference.
Sam says the proof reading is good , all now go for printing. Now he is one of the elite .
Posted
Hello 👋
I've have just finished reading all the info. I have been on and off sleeping as have a annoying cold. Good news l don't work on Mondays and snuggled up to snowy.
For me everyone is different and people do what works and is right for them. I feel this site has helped me massively and giving me more confidence. So thank all you great artists. All my abstracts/realism I do from my mind and how I am feeling at the time and subjects like Ellen in what I want to show in my paintings.. It's the way I love painting although there are times I do take my own pictures 📸 and are proud as I used to absolutely rubbish at taken them. I use as reference sometimes. For colours. To achieve that expression I really want to achieve and sketch the way I like to do it. Everyone uses photos in what way works for them and that's okay. By the way I do use cheap paints. Hands up 👋 But I bloody love it when I do my abstracts. When I become rich i will use paints I can afford. 😁 haha!
Take care everyone ❤
Posted
Photographs can be and generally are a great addition in the armoury of most artists, I use them all the time as a source of reference, including for my last posting of Faversham Creek! But I also added my own interpretation and artistic input.
Children and animals are so difficult without photographic reference, I’ve got dozens of half finished sketches of my young whippet who is so lively apart from when he’s asleep. It’s almost impossible to capture him with any degree of accuracy, Sylvia manages it with her Sam… she’s just plain clever!
Russell, that’s a lovely commission you’ve undertaken, and there is no better artist on here to do that one justice! Good luck with it.
Edited
by Alan Bickley