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Bouquets or Brickbats?
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Message
Posted
This is, be warned, as much about stirring up controversy as anything else, to help kick the Forum into life for the new year.
But I do wonder - not often, just sometimes - what people have in mind when they praise bad paintings. All right, define 'bad' - well; badly drawn; proportions all wrong; perspective a distant after-thought; crude colour; excessive decoration intended to disguise the structural faults - just 'bad'.
There's one I'm thinking of - a recent post, but I won't identify it. It wasn't over-garlanded with praise or anything like that; but it did receive praise I thought completely over the top. It wasn't yet another Bob Ross clone, it wasn't a dishonest picture, we all might have produced something like this when starting out. God bless it and its artist for good intentions.
But it was pretty dire, to be honest. That's not the problem; perhaps there isn't really a problem at all! But it struck me (as doubtless something should) that while you might praise someone for a brave attempt, say 'keep going, I see potential', just praising a piece is what you do when your five year old grandson comes in with his crayon drawing of the cat; even though it looks utterly terrifying, or more like a cow, you say 'Oh that's marvellous [insert child's name here] you ARE clever!' Or something - I don't have a grandson; do have a great niece; quite prepared to praise her artistic efforts.
But - butting a lot of buts today; here's a few more - but, but, but - does it really do an artist showing their work on a public gallery any GOOD to say all these warm but rather wet words - 'lovely', 'beautiful', 'very good' - when actually the painting isn't, in truth, any of those things?
Granted, people don't necessarily post here to get a critique; I suspect few do - unless one is asked for, or the hint is dropped that it might be required, I'll do what I'd do in a real Gallery: walk on by and not make disparaging comments about someone else's efforts. But (there we go again) I wouldn't be going into raptures over it, to be 'kind', either. And I do realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and some here would say Jackson Pollock was a rotten painter, with which I would strongly disagree. Even so - we can usually tell if a piece of work is pedestrian - as I well know some of mine are - and equally, we know if something is a bit of a disaster: at least, so I assume. I'm all for encouraging people - indeed, I often do; I don't think, though, that we're really doing any favours to an artist by over-praising, any more than we would by destructive criticism.
But perhaps my inner Scrooge hasn't yet had his annual come-uppance.
Posted
I a not going to tread in the muddy waters of what constitutes a bad or even a good painting, I often like a painting 'warts and all'. But if POL gallery comments have one failing it is the lack of 'brickbats'. 'Tis a pity Derek Snowden is no longer with us, he gave honest and usually valuable feedback. Some comments I have benefitted from include 'A good subject I think the water is too overpowering the nicely drawn figure' and 'Nearly there Tony, just needs darker darks I think.' It is hard to put in genuine criticism in writing. Recently I have wanted to write 'I do like the painting, but the perspective looks a bit off' or even 'Scrolling down the enlarged version of this painting I really liked the upper part but I do wonder if the foreground is really necessary.' Time to be bold, time to be honest, time to be properly critical?
Posted
Tricky one, this. It has caused problems in the past. Sometimes a comment on line can come across far harsher than it was meant - oh the fireworks that ensue!
If someone asks for advice or is undecided, then I think it's ok to add your pennyworth. Certainly there are a lot of people starting out who post their first efforts and it's clear they've some way to go. Encouragement and friendliness is what's needed here, nobody should be put off from posting. I'm not talking about gushing praise, I do see a fair bit of that and wonder why.
The other point about unasked for criticism is, of course, it can come across as a tad arrogant. I remember one member of an art group I belonged to used to take it into his head to walk around giving " advice". It was irritating but we all smiled inwardly - his own work left much to be desired.
To sum up - generally I wouldn't give unasked for criticism but I would give an opinion if asked.
Posted
Very difficult discussion but a good one. I think I always veer on the side of positivity as it takes a lot of courage to post your work on this site and sometimes we all need encouragement so any criticism has to be handled extremely carefully. Some of us have broader backs than others but as we don't know the individuals concerned it would be all too easy to put someone off ever painting again. I prefer not to take the risk. I also agree with Tony that I like a lot of paintings warts and all. Thank God we're all different!
Posted
Robert, the possibility is that the people giving "gushing" praise really do like the painting in question. I have certainly been shown paintings that somebody has bought or been given, and that they genuinely love, and I've struggled for something polite to say they have been so lurid - tastes definitely vary! I'm another that, if I can't say anything nice, I try not to say anything at all (on the other hand usually when I don't say anything it isn't because I didn't like it, just that I didn't see it as I don't spend that much time on here and miss a lot...).
Also, I'm not technically good enough to critique anybody else unless they ask in which case I might risk it. I agree with Heather - I got put off drawing when I was very young by criticism and took years to get back to it; also I have met a number of women in classes etc that have the same happen to them. In my case that was years ago and I know that I will never be outstanding but still enjoy it and I appreciate any constructive critiques as I am well aware I have a lot to learn. I do quite often say something is "Lovely" but if I do it is because I actually think that - sometimes it may not be technically perfect but the colours are beautiful.
Any way, if folk enjoyed painting it, does it matter if other people don't like it?
Edited
by Margaret Nisbet
Posted
To answer just one of your points raised Robert, and there are a lot!
No, it doesn’t do the artist any good at all by extolling countless passages of worthless praise when it clearly isn’t justified. Much better to offer some small token of ‘guidance’ perhaps, but that’s not always welcome!
I have noticed a few over-exuberant or gushing comments of late, on really obvious badly presented paintings or drawings, I generally pass them by and move on.
If critique is required and asked for then I’ll generally give my honest opinion, in as gentle a way as possible of course, suggesting ways to improve a certain passage, perspective or whatever the issue may be!
Posted
I have to put my hand up and say that I sometimes am a bit OTT, with praise, but it’s often when someone has stated that they are finding it difficult or struggling a bit. I only comment on a painting or sketch if I like it, but not necessarily all of it, some I like in the thumb nail but don’t like the larger version and tend not to comment. There are some artists who’s work I generally like and will always make a comment on their works. It does take courage to post a painting and even now I still thinks about it carefully before doing so. Kind encouragement goes a long way if it’s genuinely deserving. The other thing for me is being dyslexic I often need to read it several time to get the meaning, and I’m always a little fearful that It may not come across as it’s meant to be. Very thought provoking post Robert.
Posted
Wow Robert you stirrer you . But why not it’s very valid. I must admit I’ve looked again and wondered what I’m not seeing that other people are.
If I don’t like it I say nothing. . But I sometimes you can feel the effort someone has gone to. Then I look for something positive as there always is. I have offered critiques in the past and been shot down in flames. I do feel that if you post it n a public place any brickbats that come your way are deserved. Plus a bit of positivity ...though not OTT
Posted
What a great kick start to the year Robert and a most interesting discussion with excellent points raised. Personally if I comment on a work I do genuinely like it, try to say why but often I just like the work as a whole so don't try to do a critique. As far as my own paintings are concerned I would welcome constructive criticism, and I know that POL artists are constructive. I appreciate the encouraging comments but would be quite relaxed about suggestions for improvement. I never shoot anyone down in flames!
Posted
My standard here is Paulette Farrell. When she first posted on the Gallery, I recognized that indefinable something - she asked for advice on drawing, I provided a bit (plus a few fairly awful drawings of my own) and look at her now! Her progress has been extraordinary - she's inventive, exploratory, bold. To say at the outset that she couldn't draw would have been wholly wrong (both morally and aesthetically - she had all the basics). But I never felt inclined to say 'Paulette, your work is wonderful', when it wasn't. I did feel strongly inclined to encourage her, but not to fawn ... and I think (to praise myself ecstatically, of course) that I was right. If you see something strong, I think - encourage it; try to turn it in useful directions given the temperament and talents of the artist - but in that case, and one or two others, there WAS something there on which to build, and that was the whole point. Flatulent praise would never have brought it out or developed it. She's a selling artist now, I believe! Now, that's entirely HER doing, not mine - even so.... I'm glad I didn't fawn over the early work. I don't think we should: if there's something there, encourage it but never flatter it.
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