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Message
Posted
Just a quick question as I am curious of peoples approaches to taking quality images of their work in oils. Do you take photos before or after varnishing?
If before - how do you deal with any sinking in of the paints? (especially in the darks)
If after - how do you prevent to much glare/reflections?
I'm getting fairly good photos by not having any direct lights and putting the camera on a long exposure but wondered about other artists approaches?
Happy weekend!
Gary
Posted
I always take my photos before any varnishing, in fact, I don’t always varnish my paintings, and if I do, I use matte varnish.
Otherwise you will have to wait 6 months or so before taking a photograph! 6 months being the generally accepted minimum time before adding varnish. If I’m adding a new oil painting to my online gallery, then I’ll generally photograph it within a few days of completion, so it will still be wet to an extent!
I don’t get any sinking in, never have had any issues with that, but Robert will be able to advise you on how best to deal with this issue! Also Marjorie is an experienced oil painter, she may also offer some advice here!
There’s an ‘oiling out’ process that can help, but I’ve never needed to use it.
If you’re getting major issues here, have a look at the thinners and oils that you are using - (Robert and I differ greatly on this issue, but I’ll leave it at that for now).
I’m using a Nikon DSLR camera and I always take my paintings outside to photograph them - obviously not in direct sunlight and when the light is at its best, say around noon with a North light if you want to be really pedantic!
Posted
Thanks Alan,
I have usually used gesso primed panels and recently used an oil primed one which had less sinking in so I think that may be some of the issue. I hadn't really thought about the thinners being an issue (I occasionally use senelier green thinner but generally don't use any and just some linseed oil on later layers if needed). Annoyingly, I do like the look of gloss varnish for bringing out the rich colours. :-)
I have a 4 year old running around the house so my painting time is limited which means I have learnt the value of oiling out as I hardly ever get to finish a layer in one session. I don't really want to oil out the whole painting after finishing though (or wait 6 months to take a photo).
Thanks for your advice.
Posted
I don't seem to have probs with sinking in, though I have had in the past. I must paint in a different way now! I don't use linseed either, just pure paint from the tube, I have linseed if I should ever need it. Sometimes I use a glazing medium. I'm lucky in that I have time to paint when I want and I do paint quite quickly. I take all photos with my iPad - it's good enough for entries to TALP and the odd mag article and always before a varnish. Varnishes..I'm with Alan here, I don't like a high gloss.
Re surfaces, I use canvases, gesso primed boards, linen boards, wood - most things really. What I would like to try is painting on metal, never got there yet.
Edited
by Marjorie Firth
Posted
Sinking-in - well, Dr Bickley has put this out for a second opinion, so donning the white coat and serious expression, I hasten to oblige....
Sinking-in occurs for several reasons: one is inadequate quality of priming/sizing - which is one reason why many people add their own acrylic priming to a canvas (I don't often do that, but I do avoid cheap and nasty canvases and boards which seem to act like sponges). Another reason is that paint can be underbound with oil - too much Turpentine/Low Odour Thinners etc in the lower layers, or worse, thinners used at all in the upper layers - thinners don't so much dilute paint as disperse and even destroy it - they should rarely if ever be used in the subsequent paint layers. A third reason - and this gets a little bit controversial - is advanced by the artist and writer Virgil Elliot in his book (and for what it's worth, I've come to agree with him: he WILL be pleased!): Burnt Umber is a clay-based paint, and it can sink very badly - Raw Umber can also sink, as can Yellow Ochre, because all of these are clay-based.
Against that, these paints have been used for many hundreds of years, and have great strengths: lightfastness being one. But they - especially the Burnt Umber - can sink-in, and crack over time.
Hence, I very rarely use Burnt Umber now, though do use the other two. Instead of these, the recommendation is for the synthetic Mars colours - iron oxides including Mars Red, Yellow, Orange, Violet, Brown, and Black. It's a little frustrating that you have to go from maker to maker to get the full range, but so far as I know no single maker produces all of them. There isn't a Mars Umber, but brown is so easy to make by mixing that I've never seen a reason to buy it ready-made (Mars Brown isn't a particularly deep shade, but is a very attractive brown if you're in a hurry and not wanting to mix your own, and of course it can be darkened easily).
I have had big problems with photographing paintings, on which I won't dwell (I just needed to take the paintings outside of my dingy flat and photograph them in daylight), but I would always photograph them before varnishing, and don't use a flash.
Posted
PS - I've forgotten how Alan and I differ on oils and thinners! One of us is getting old, and I've a nasty suspicion it's me....
He refers, as does Gary, to "oiling out", though - please, with great care, and keep it to a minimum: never over a whole painting: it can cause yellowing - all oil paintings yellow to some extent (you can counteract that by exposing them to natural light: I had a painting which had yellowed very badly - I was highly gratified to find that exposure to daylight cured it in a day), and if it's because there's a layer of oil over them, there's little if anything you can do to correct it: you can remove dirty, yellowed varnish, but even a good conservator would have trouble counteracting an oil-slick over a picture. Advice on which Alan and I would, I'm sure, agree is: keep mediums of all kind to the minimum needed; and don't assume you have to add oil, Liquin, or anything else to paint as a matter of course - while some paint flows like setting cement, other paints are fine just as they are when squeezed out onto the palette, and don't need more oil: especially if you're using fresh paint - oil paint can last for decades or more in its tube, but leaving it on the palette for a day or more is not a great idea - no point being mean with paint; if it's getting gelid and stiff, scrape it off, and squeeze some more out.
Posted
Thanks Marjorie, yes my process is also quite slow and usually layered (I'm influenced by realism). I can usually get fine photos that are accurate, it's just that means it catches the sunk in bits too. I really only use a tiny bit of linseed for some areas to help the paint flow (such as doing hair or fine lines). Aluminium seems the trend these days but Im yet to try it. I am converted to oil primed rather than gesso now - everything slides around in a much niver way (in my opinion).
Robert, thank you too, I usually add an extra layer of gesso (michael harding) but still my darks (usually a mix of 2 or 3 of ultramarine blue, ivory black, aliziran (or however you spell it!) crimzon and raw umber) sink in, even after a few layers. The canvas panels are usually jackson art or belle arti (a mix of qualities) I had no idea about umbers sinking in though - they usually form the underpainting of my work - thanks for that tidbit.
Thanks also for the oiling out tips, I usually scumble in a thin layer where I plan to work, leave it a few minutes and then wipe away any excess with a tissue. I am converting to oil primed now as I feel there's less sink in and I like the slidy, slickness of them.
Thanks again everyone for such detailed responses!
Posted
Oil priming is a great idea - not easy to find oil-primed canvases/boards: in fact, I don't think I'd know where to look. A lead primed board would be ideal, but again - lead; can't get it, can we? I do stain my boards (for oils, obviously) with a thin impramatura of, eg, Yellow Ochre or Burnt Sienna - that seems to help. Belle art boards are good; Jacksons are good for the price. I've never tried metal grounds either - looked at the price and had to have a nice sit-down and restoring glug of spiritous liquor; Ampersand boards are worth a try - I was happy with an oil on Ampersand; less so with an acrylic. Again, not cheap in this country - they're made in the USA.
Posted
PS - try leaving out the Raw Umber: Alizarin Crimson is an extremely slow dryer, so not ideal for grounds, either. A favourite of mine, which I didn't mention, is Mars Orange - dries quickly, it's warm, not brash, a good basis for judging other colours - many swear by a grey, eg a mix of viridian and rose, or Ultramarine and Burnt Sienna. To be honest, I'm not surprised you're having sinking-in problems with the colours you're using as a base - you'd be much better off with just two warmish and quick-drying colours, low in oil - Ivory Black, Alizarin Crimson, don't qualify as either, really: Aliz. Crimson is warmish, but has blue undertones, and isn't quick drying; Ivory Black is as slow as death to dry and can create a lot of problems - but: I won't rattle on forever!
Posted
Hi Robert,
Ah sorry I should have explained better - those colours I mentioned are usually when I get to the colour layer for the shadows - not for the underpainting or first stain - I have always liked raw umber (maybe with a touch of ultramarine) for the underpainting (monochrome tones layer). I find it's a nice neutral - burnt umber has always been too strong for me as an underpainting. I tend to rub it in for a light stain too. Will definitely look into Mars Orange and I like how ultramarine and burnt sienna go together so will experiment with them too.
PS - Jacksons do a range of fine linen, oil primed canvas boards which I really like...although price is high too. I read that canvas has almost doubled in price in the last year or two!
Posted
I posted this on the gallery but some of it gives an indication of the sinking in that I mentioned. The pot in the middle at the back, especially the not shiny part looks very flat and not as dark in the shadows now (see in the hole and along the left edge). Granted, it does use a lot of umber (which I now know could be a reason), but much of the rest of the painting is fine so it just gives it all a bit of a patchy, inconsistent look.
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