Advice on Colours

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Two kinds of Naples Yellow - the real thing (in oil, containing lead) and Naples Yellow (Hue), which instead of lead contains Zinc - there are many question marks over Zinc, but I'm hoping there's not so much in Naples Yellow Hue that will cause later problems; because I like Naples Yellow too - you can approach its colour/tone by mixing a very small amount of Cad Yellow Light with Titanium White.   In acrylic and watercolour, Naples Yellow isn't made the same way and is perfectly safe, and extremely useful in watercolour as a mixer with greens and other yellows, to achieve a degree of opacity. Monastral Blue - yes, I have a tube of that; a very, very OLD tube of that: it also goes by the following names: Monestial Blue; Thalo Blue; Pthalo Blue; Pthalocyanine Blue; and it's the basis for a lot of Hue blues, like Cobalt, Cerulean, Kings, Manganese; oh, and it's also called Winsor Blue.  I don't like it at all, on its own: but it has the great merit of being adaptable, it can be manipulated by skilled colour makers, and it's relatively cheap: certainly FAR cheaper than genuine Cobalt or Cerulean Blue.  I use it sometimes as a mixer - for some reason, I find I can use it in watercolour as a sky blue - plus, with a bit of mixing, in acrylic; but not in oil.   I have yet to work out why - but too intense, and tending to bleed into other colours probably covers it.   And so far as Bill's original question is concerned - I agree with Alan; see where you get with what you've chosen.  
A basic range - hmm.  White obviously - probably Titanium, you won't want to be throwing a ton of cash at the lead whites at this juncture; black, if you like - make it Ivory or Mars Black: or mix a tonal black; Burnt Sienna; Cadmium Red Light; Quinacridone violet, or red, or magenta - this one is also known as Permanent Rose in some ranges, PV19 is the pigment name; Yellow Ochre; Raw Sienna; Cadmium Yellow Light; Lemon Yellow; Viridian; Ultramarine. Later on, you'll be wanting to add Cerulean Blue or Cobalt Blue.  (The 'Hue' versions are basically mixes of Pthalo Blue - on the whole you're better off without them, though the W&N Manganese Blue (Hue) is pretty good.) Or - and this is about as basic as I could make it, others may do better - a modified Zorn palette: White, Cadmium Red, Yellow Ochre, Black, plus a blue; probably Ultramarine, and a bright Yellow, like Cadmium Yellow.   Brands: Daler Rowney, Georgian Range and Artists' range; what little I've had from Jacksons was good; there's a range of oils on the Ken Bromley website: I can vouch for their Cadmium Yellow.  There are many more brands available, some expensive, most expensive for good reasons - eg the Michael Harding paints, the Wallace Seymour range, Rublev, Old Holland, which you'll want to graduate to as you continue to progress.  And then there's the Talens Rembrandt range, which is generally very good. This IS all going to involve a considerable outlay on your part at the outset; there's no satisfactory way around that - but you will have a product that will last for decades in the tube: I'm finishing off a tube of Winsor & Newton's Cadmium Red, which I know is at least 40 years old - suggesting to me that I ought to use Cad Red more often..... Two further notes: Alizarin Crimson has a dubious reputation - it fades in tints and glazes; and I haven't recommended Pthalo Blue or Green because - I don't like them; but they are reasonably cheap to make, and thus to buy.  And other people DO get on with them.
Robert Jones, NAPA on 19/03/2023 09:11:37
Thank you Robert for your very helpful notes. You've given me a lot to think about. I had no idea that Alizarin Crimson faded, so I'll avoid it. I've had enough trouble with my acrylic paints darkening, ruining a few early paintings I did, so colour stability is important.  I think I'll go for Cadmium Red, Cadmium Yellow and Titanium White initially. I still have no idea about blue, but French Ultramarine seems to be popular here and I could always get two shades. It's probably the colour I use most. Cobalt Blue is a lovely hue, so maybe that would be the one to get. I don't know why, but I've seldom bought secondary or tertiary colours. I prefer to mix my own. Yes, it'll be a fair outlay, maybe £100 initially. I'm lazy about brush cleaning, so I'll probably have to buy a few of those too. 
PS - the basic range you've suggested for yourself would work, in a very limited way - but with a bit of imagination you could do a lot with it - as you could with mixes of white, Burnt Sienna, and Ultramarine - a very limited palette, but capable of rather a lot, in work I've seen.
Robert Jones, NAPA on 19/03/2023 09:17:32
A palette of white, Burnt Sienna and Ultramarine? That sounds interesting! I think you could do a lot with that. I sometimes paint with a very limited palette, and it can be very effective compositionally, and good practice at doing the most with the least and learning about colours.
Back in the seventies when I first picked up acrylics I limited myself to 2 reds (alizarin crimson and Vermillion - both hues), 2 blues (ultramarine and monestral), 2 yellows (Winsor yellow and yellow ochre) along with Burnt Umber and Titanium White.  Twenty years late I did buy some Mars Black for a specific painting (portrait with black background) and found it can make interesting greens when mixed with yellow.  Monestral Blue seems to have  been replaced by Phthalocyanine Blue (both shades).  I seem to have gone crazy with yellow replacing Winsor yellow with Lemon Yellow as well as Cadmium Yellow (both light and deep shades).  None of the substitutions were because I was unhappy but names and offerings changed and I was searching for an alternative.  I have a little used tube of Dioxazine Purple (again bought for a specific purpose).  I bought a tube of Payne's Grey to experiment with and some Zinc White to try in mixes.  The Payne's Grey has been little used and the Zinc White is unopened, but that is because the muse has abandoned me for a while.  Can't say I have really wanted for more.
Tony Auffret on 19/03/2023 09:53:56
Thanks for your input Tony. You're a man after my own heart when it comes to minimising the colours and I can see myself working with a similar palette very soon. A lot of artists seem to like Yellow Ochre, so maybe I need to think about adding that too. I do a lot of landscapes, so it's earthy tone would be useful.  I'm sorry the muse has left you; hopefully it's not for long! I can go for months without doing anything then suddenly find myself churning them out, which I've been doing since I found this site.
Well, there's been a lot of good advice here. If you follow it all, you'll have dozens of tubes and will spend a fortune, so what should you do? I think you should decide on what you wish to paint, and then think out a colour scheme using a limited number of colours (restricted palette). Include whether you want sympathetic or complementary colours, warm colours or cold ones. Then do a bit of research on the internet to identify precisely the colours you need, e.g. the colours for warm or cold greens. Use of a downloadable colour wheel app will help. I never use black from a tube as it tends to be lifeless. I mix it from burnt umber and ultramarine blue. If you are at the stage where you exhibit your work, I would recommend artists' grade colours. These contain more pigment than the students' grade such as Winton or Georgian. I also recommend Jacksons's colours which come in three grades. The top and most expensive grade is the "professional". Only worth buying if you are  top professional artist. It contains the most pigment. The next grade is effectively the artist's grade and is cheaper than, but probably as good as, other well-known makes. The cheapest grade is the student's. If you think it out, you will probably only need about six tubes, which will cost you about £50. Add a large tube of white. The best place I've found to buy canvas board or canvas is Loxley Arts, which have a good range and which is a lot cheaper than many makers'. Find them by Google. They deliver, or you can click and collect from their warehouse in Sheffield. You have to click on what you want, before the full range of sizes and prices comes up. Good luck.
Barrie Jervis on 19/03/2023 10:22:59
Hi there. Thank you for your advice. There are a lot of experienced and knowledgable artists here and it's great to be able to tap into those reserves of artistic wisdom! It's interesting that many of you don't buy black. That suggests I don't need it either. I do the occasional 'black canvas' painting, which would require a deep black background, but it might be better to buy black gesso or even cheap acrylic paint for that. I didn't know the Winton range was student's grade. I am definitely a student, but I also want paints with enough pigment in them. Sometimes buying cheaper is a false economy, as I've found when buying cheap acrylic paints. 
Nearly always a false economy - I've seen good work done with Winton paints, and with water-miscible oils, and if your budget is limited they at least help to ease your way into oil painting, or acrylics  - but they don't have enough colour in them, for the most part!  You're always trying to compensate for that, and then the danger is that you produce work which is garish, brash, but above all - without subtlety; it's that combination you want; subtle, but powerful.  So - I buy the best paint I can, and wince when I have to pay for it: I do have some cheaper colours and have tended to use them alongside the expensive ones: but the difference doesn't half show - I've had to scrape it off and start again, with better paint - otherwise, it's like presenting bags of crisps at the Lord Mayor's banquet: there's a bit of a discrepancy...
I was looking at water-mixable oil paints today. They were a bit cheaper than oil paints and I suppose would make a good halfway house between acrylics and oils. The prices for some of W&N's higher series oils are eyewaterinw. I think it was £58 for a 100ml tube for their Series 3 paints. The Winton range would probably seem highly pigmented compared to the crap I'm using, but I think you're right and I should maybe spend a few pennies more for decent artist's paints. I can't wait to buy some oil paints now!
Another excellent brand is the van Gogh range of oils by Royal Talens. I’ve got lots of them and can’t fault them in any way. Not everyone stocks them which is a pity, but worth sourcing as the quality is excellent and a good price. The film ‘Loving Vincent’ if you’ve seen it Bill, was painted exclusively using the very same Van Gogh oils that I am recommending, and the artwork for that film was exceptional.
As you know I don’t paint in oils but I have some Van Gogh watercolours by Royal Talons , they are excellent and rich in pigment The few colours I have had from some time despite then been small tubes as very little paint is needed , when I next need paint I will certainly buy them . But  it will be a while as I have just checked and have about twenty tubes of paint un opened that have been bought for me , at my age my kids don’t know what to but me so get paint, paper or a voucher for art supplies, suits me well. 
Another excellent brand is the van Gogh range of oils by Royal Talens. I’ve got lots of them and can’t fault them in any way. Not everyone stocks them which is a pity, but worth sourcing as the quality is excellent and a good price. The film ‘Loving Vincent’ if you’ve seen it Bill, was painted exclusively using the very same Van Gogh oils that I am recommending, and the artwork for that film was exceptional.
Alan Bickley on 21/03/2023 10:16:34
Thanks for the tip. I had a look on their website and they have a bewildering range of colours. They look very high quality too, although I couldn't see prices anywhere.  I haven't seen the film, no. I'll look out for it, as quality films are a rarity these days!
As you know I don’t paint in oils but I have some Van Gogh watercolours by Royal Talons , they are excellent and rich in pigment The few colours I have had from some time despite then been small tubes as very little paint is needed , when I next need paint I will certainly buy them . But  it will be a while as I have just checked and have about twenty tubes of paint un opened that have been bought for me , at my age my kids don’t know what to but me so get paint, paper or a voucher for art supplies, suits me well. 
Paul  (Dixie) Dean on 21/03/2023 10:47:49
Thanks for replying. The Van Gogh products look excellent, I have to say, although I'd have to buy them online, as I've never seen them on sale here in Scotland.  I'm the same with gifts. My daughters just give me money now and I keep it for art supplies. 
It came out in 2017 Bill, Loving Vincent is the world's first fully painted film. We painted over 65,000 frames on over 1,000 canvases.  I’m pleased to see that Jackson’s are now stocking the van Gogh range…
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