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Message
Posted
I totally agree everything Fiona written regarding Alan and add to her plea that you reconsider. Tessa has it right too it would be a hopeless situation if we did not have Alan Bickley there to advise and give us the odd nudge . You ate Mr Bickley one of the most respected and influential people on this site bar non , and I know you never set out to achieve that it comes down to you as a person and your willingness to share you knowledge and experience long may that continue good sir.
Posted
Alan, should you be looking in despite what you've said - you should be in politics: no you shouldn't, you'd hate it, but if you were you'd have expected just one word to be taken amiss, and for that to lead to any number of further takings amiss the further we trundle on.
Hence my effort to swamp the subject in a deluge of words. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, this time didn't.
I wasn't particularly surprised that John bridled at your "trivialities", or that you reciprocated in light of his "sigh". That's the way conversations can so easily go when you can't see the whites of another's eyes; what is never intended to be personal, and would be addressed in seconds if you were actually talking face to face by a simple explanation, can assume importance beyond its merits.
It was a complex question to start with, to which no summary reply is really available. We waded in - and some of us, possibly all of us, were soon up to our necks and in even slightly further. I know, because you've told me, that you get irritated with aspects of the forum from time to time, and you know, because I've told you, that I do too. However - I hope you'll accept that this is life with all its boundless pitfalls, and think again about contributing here, because the forum would be very much worse off without you.
Posted
Alan, as soon as you expressed your anger at my unnecessary post I clicked on "Follow" in the hope I would be able to communicate with you personally to convey my sincerest apologies. I understand why you haven't reciprocated so I will make my apology publicly in this thread.
From my side, as a new member I wanted to try and engage more with the community. I've always been interested in where the line between art and non-art lies and considered a discussion about the matter might be a good way to interact with other members. Right from the get-go, replies to my question were giving me advice about copying, telling me not to worry about it, and warning me of the need to credit the owners of any reference piece I was using. Perhaps I shouldn't have felt frustrated at that, but I did.
Not wishing to throw in the towel so easily and be one of Sylvia's deserting OP's, I posted again to address those issues and try and bring the focus back to the question I was asking. That drew a couple of interesting observations but the main thrust of the replies continued to be advice and copyright warnings.
After my third attempt at replying with regards to copyright permissions, and trying to get the initial question back on the table, you stepped in and offered more advice while telling me not to worry about it. In a moment of downhearted frustration I posted my "sigh" comment. It was NOT directed at you, nor Tanji who also took it personally, but at the whole thread. It was unnecessary, it was wrong, it was rude and it was out of place and unbecoming of a new member trying to interact with a new community.
Several posters have referred to the difficulties of internet conversations, and they are right. Had we all been sitting around a table, at the moment of my 'reaction', as I sighed, you would have seen my eyes travel around the table and been under no doubt that this was a frustration with the whole proceeding rather than with one individual .... the last person who happened to speak.
But there's the crux of the matter. I am a new member in a new community and it is for me to learn the ways of that community, not to get frustrated that it's not going the way I wanted it to. My 'sigh' was out of character, totally uncalled for, and extremely rude, not just too you, but to everyone.
If we were around a table right now I would apologise unreservedly to everyone and I would extend my hand to you by way of a personal apology and of hopefully seeking your forgiveness, and then I'd quietly leave the room. I deeply regret what I said, the way I said it, and the consequences of it. I cannot undo what has happened but I hope, for the sake of the forum and community at large, that you can accept this heartfelt apology in the spirit in which it is given. I extend my hand ...... hopefully.
Edited
by John Johnston
Posted
From my own point of view, I don’t see this being solely about a ‘sigh’. Filtering through one particular “deluge of words,” there is a sentence - “I thought, when I saw Alan’s reply, that his habitual frankness might have been toned down a bit“
Why? It was a general observation, and a good one.
Posted
I’m away at the moment but it was shock, horror when I saw what was going on. Alan will make his own mind up but he has great support from all of us. As has been said, and I’ve said it myself a few times….things that are said online can often be misconstrued. You’ll be a big miss if you go, Alan, so don’t!
Posted
Because I knew it would be likely, from the way the conversation had been going, to be misunderstood as a personal rather than general observation. And clearly, so it proved. (In response to Fiona.) From my own point of view, I don’t see this being solely about a ‘sigh’. Filtering through one particular “deluge of words,” there is a sentence - “I thought, when I saw Alan’s reply, that his habitual frankness might have been toned down a bit“ Why? It was a general observation, and a good one.
Edited
by Robert Jones, NAPA
Posted
Fiona, I'm going to have, reluctantly, to elaborate on that. Wend your way back through the thread, before the "sigh", and you will find Alan's comment about trivialities: I feared that this might get an unfortunate reaction, because it seemed to me, never mind to the author of the thread, to be a comment on the need for the thread in the first place. Now, I could get into worse trouble by saying that I might have had some sympathy with that point if it had been intended as such; because I don't think the question as phrased was answerable - but nonetheless, I could see what it might have meant. Alan did not mean that John was indulging in trivialities, and did not intend it as any sort of rebuke to him; we now see that John didn't take the remark that way, but - in his first reply, he did quote it. Incidentally, it seems that Tanja also thought it might refer to her.
So it wasn't taken, by two people and if you include me as a third, as an entirely "general" remark: my feeling was that Alan had become impatient with the thread and hadn't held back in saying so. Personally, had it been mine, I wouldn't have objected to that at all, but I did see how others might. I am anxious to resolve the issue, not to inflame it, but all the same - words do have meanings, even if they're frequently misinterpreted.
As Alan has said he will continue to show his work on the gallery, I doubt he'll be able to stay away for long, and I hope he doesn't. I have his email address, and will send John's apology to him in the hope that these several misunderstandings can be sorted out without further upset to anyone.
Posted
Hello everyone…
I’ve been reading the comments and would like to thank everyone for their concerns regarding the possibility that I may leave, something that I was seriously considering!
But let’s draw a line under this matter now please! I’ve accepted John’s apology and after some consideration, I have made the decision to continue contributing to this forum.
I’ve been an active member for around 7 or 8 years now, and have always enjoyed participating in whatever topic was up for discussion, and in particular trying to give advice to other members with their painting issues, and offering constructive critique. That part of the forum is the most rewarding for me.
During this time, I’ve made a great many ‘virtual’ acquaintances, some of whom I now consider friends…
So, as I’ve said, let’s move on, put this episode behind us and I hope to be joining in again shortly.
Thank you all.
