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TALP 2025
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Message
Posted
I had a website, and haven't now - does this mean I was a professional and now am not; or that I was just pretending to be a pro in the first place; or.... well, Lord alone knows.
I don't enter competitions - not out of principle, I just don't want the work and effort! But if I did, after nearly 60 years of painting and sales to my name, I don't think it would be ethical to present myself as an amateur. On the other hand, I'm no threat to David Hockney. So I have some sympathy for Warners - and think the onus is on the individual artist. To be very charitable, it's possible that they entered the wrong category by accident; it's possible that they're seized by a false modesty; but while I don't know who the artist is, perhaps they'll see this and think about re-submitting in the professional category - the judges will surely be aware of the reputation of any professional artist (wouldn't be much cop as judges if they didn't) and will discount the efforts of a professional who, for whatever reason, is presenting as a leisure painter or amateur.
Posted
I think it's an impossible distinction. The 'rules' say...Leisure Painter - developing artist. Artist - experienced and professional artists.
Surely the whole point about art is that you're always developing. Or, at some point, do you say I can stop developing now? Then there's experience, how long is that particular piece of string? 5 years? 50? Or over 70 in my case. And during all this experience when did I stop developing...or did I ever start?
They should be lumped together...just one competition. Look through the winning entries, the standard is much the same in both groups. It's high.
I think of myself as a leisure painter, always have, I've made no special effort to sell my work. If I were to enter TALP, I think I'd have to enter the 'artist' section....just because I'm old.
But long ago I stopped entering competitions, so maybe my opinion doesn't count.
Posted
With my moderators hat off , I do think the TALP team are in a awkward situation, if someone submits a painting either of the categories wrongly or deliberately. It’s a fine line between professional and leisure painter , often a mix of both, selling some paintings can make you look a professional but your still not making a living from it . Looking at what Lew has written I can put myself in the profession category as I have sold painting and have painted for a very long time , but I closing to be a leisure painter as that’s what I actually am.
I also have a Website, still, a work in progress and I don’t think it’s ever been visited by anyone but me as I’ve never advertised it .
If artists who entered their work in the Leisure category deliberately and they are professional it’s unethical and definitely unfair of then to do so , I can understand the publishers not wanting to challenge as it would be awful publicity in some ways and good in others, there is also the fear of being sued.
Quit a hollow victory if as a professional you have entered and won a leisure painter’s competition, not something I would be shouting about.
Posted
An interesting discussion. I have also stopped entering any competitions, not that I ever did many but I have other priorities these days. This year in particular I was put off entering TALP competition because of the difficulties experienced by some others here and I have always found the description of the two groups confusing. Like Lew I think the two categories should probably be combined as one Or at least defined more clearly. I agree the standard of both is very high. I think of a professional artist as someone who makes a living by their art, nothing more or less than that. I have no idea who the ‘culprit’ is in this case: why not just name the person and we can all decide for ourselves!
I had a website a few years ago but in no way thought of myself as a professional artist. I gave up the website because I found it quite difficult to operate and distinctly unsuccessful in selling anything! I know a few people from my art group who sell via instagram and Facebook but they are definitely not professionals. The fact that someone has a website definitely does not make them a professional artist.
Typing at the same time Dixie!
Edited
by Tessa Gwynne
Posted
I don't know who the person was but based on what Andrew had posted it was easy for me to make a clear distinction. Nomatter what profession we chose, we continue developing throughout are careers. For example if a person qualified at university as an engineer then worked in the industry, I wouldn't class that person as an amateur. I would see that person as a professional.
Posted
I don’t know of any other art competitions that have this distinction between professional and amateur artists.
But, it seems to have worked well enough over the many years that it has been running.
The original distinction was obviously based on the two magazines, The Artist and Leisure Painter.
The distinction between the two categories is very clearly laid out, so it’s down to the individual artist to make that choice.
With my background and experience, I’m more than happy to enter The Artist category, which incorporates professional artists which I’m not.
But I’m prepared to be judged alongside the professionals, albeit I know that the chances of being successful and ultimately winning an award, are far less likely!
And, although not successful this year in winning an award, I’m more than pleased to have had two of my oils accepted for the exhibition, which incidentally is on now at Patchings.
These are my two oil paintings in situ at Patchings… the two in the centre!
Edited
by Alan Bickley
Posted
Folks
I started this recent discussion about eligibility for the Leisure Painter category in the TALP competition and frankly I now wish I hadn't. It is clear that Warners and the organisers don't really care to enforce a clear distinction as they believe it is up to people to decide which category they belong to and this is a subjective decision. I now realise that they are probably right, and I am not going to name names for the simple reason that my subjective decision might be different from someone else's decision, and that the artist in question might consider themselves an amateur, despite the extensive CV, training and glossy web site.
Clearly the TALP competition has outgrown me. As a previous exhibitor and one time prize winner, my 15 minutes of fame has now passed and I won't be entering again. The quality of the work selected has been outstanding for the last two years and there is simply no way I can compete while this grey area over categories continues. While I continue to paint, my work clearly can't stand up against the winning entries and I am not bitter about that as it simply encourages me to improve.
I for one am going to let this subject drop, and won't be contributing further to this conversation. Please don't conduct a witch hunt. Life is too short.
Edited
by Andrew Roles