The Golden Temple at Amritsar. India.

Actually Steve that is how the forum generally works.  It’s not exclusive .  A thread is started and often wanders here there and every where.   It’s a conversation with like minded people.  Sometimes disagreements happen. So no you haven’t hi jacked anything.  I thought it was only me who managed to post in multiples..lol. 

Martin I think Steve was trying to do a nice thing , .   Don’t get so cross. 

I have to agree with Sylvia there, sometimes, unintentionally, someone offends another. I think it blows up more online. I speak from personal experience:) 

Martin.  Very sorry.  Certainly didn't  mean to cause any problem, please don't stop posting as I'm sure others would like to see your work.  I wont trouble you anymore.    I've deleted my  image and you can do the same on your posting that contains a copy of that image.   Just log in, get the page up that contains it and click on edit on the posting.  You can then click just before or after it and then delete.

Wow, a really special painting.  I wanted to see how it would look in a gold frame and as (to my mind at least) I think it came out rather well I thought I'd share - hope you don't mind. Martin: Sorry mate, actually I really do mind..... I think this is hideous......The frame is so heavy.......however having responded below perhaps leave it there for all to to consider, though I still don't like it at all.....more to follow... I show two paintings in their black frames.                                                                                  Steves' suggestion I have my frames made by a master craftsman.  Each one is carefully considered, this painting was framed in a black frame with a thin 16 Carat gold slip. I used to frame works in gold and still do occasionally. One of the most constructive bits of advice I ever had was from Mark Sheinkman in New York when I was showing at the Salmagundi Arts Club on 5th Avenue with the Gladwell & Patterson Gallery. Mark has work in the Museum of Modern Art and I consider him to be a modern master. ( look up both Mark, The Salmagundi Club, and Gladwell and Patterson on the internet, very enlightening ) My framer is Paul Fischbacher. Look up the section on framing on my website to see him explain the process he employs. Each frame costs several hundred pounds. With the gold, he uses gold leaf which is water gilded using a time honoured process by hand.  We have used in the past a number of different golds. White gold, green gold bright gold, moon gold, to mention but a few. Also the siips can be gilded in these differing golds or just with a white polished gesso finish.  In New York, Mark suggested I use a black frame. He said " Look at the Dutch Masters in particular Rembrandt. He was a master of portraying light. The frames around his paintings are usually black, and it allows the light to really show at it's most effective." I followed his advice and switched to black from gold with remarkable success particularly in the snow paintings, and I agree with him that if you compare a black frame to a gold where one of the main concerns of the subject is the light then it really works. Of course framing is subjective. We all know however that you can enhance a good painting with a good frame. A bad painting can look better with a good frame. Equally a good painting can be ruined with a bad frame and a bad painting looks even worse when badly framed. No one wants to frame badly. I consider  it a marriage of two crafts, and am proud to have my work framed by him. Usually there is a moment where I hold my breath as I first see my painting in it's frame, and usually it will lift the painting into another dimension. Certainly really finishing off the work. One of the first considerations is that the frame should compliment the work and not detract, it should not dominate, you should not even notice the frame at first. First thing that strikes you should be the subject then maybe the frame. I have had many occasions where a customer has asked the gallery to reframe before purchasing. This is entirely the customers right and I respect their decision, though often I don't get to see the reframe. The gallery is so professional that they would advise, and would usually get an alternative right, to everyones satisfaction. They had at one time a complete workshop and sadly I only got to meet the framer as the workshop was closing. He had a book of notes which he had kept over a lifetime. It was like a cooks recipe book, full of a lifetimes experience. He could construct a moulded frame, he made the moulds then made the frames. then finished them. He also restored and made stretchers. I had no idea until I met him what work went into making and stretching a canvas correctly, but that is another matter as is conservation, let alone the making of a frame of that calibre. I feel very privileged to have met him a true on off. The customer has their preferences which may consider the decor of their home or room. I would normally if I have the chance advise against changing one of my frames my framer and I think long and hard about each individual frame. We also have a system, from years of experience now of using not only black but also a dark green, and a dark brown. The finish on these darks is also hand polished to create a finish only Paul knows how to do. It is a subtle shine, not quite gloss but also not in anyway dull. Both these alternative dark colours being hand mixed. With all these combinations of darks, and golds, and varying slips there is a great variety to choose from yet if all were seen together in an exhibition, which has happened often, or even if one is placed next to another, then there is a harmonious continuity  with all the framing.  I often get back the frames from the gallery if they have been changed and this is good as I then have another frame to paint a picture into. Paul and I have framed hundreds of paintings together and we are still very passionate about producing an object on the wall which is unique and well crafted, an object that will last and stand the test of time. It is a perfect marriage. I think what you have done is prompted a discussion on this very important matter. Imagine going into any National gallery, and finding the works on show unframed. Particularly the old masters. It is true that frames have changed throughout the ages and change with different genres. Some modern framing is very good indeed. I like to see how the Leonardo Da Vinci drawings or Old Master drawings are usually framed with thick ivory bevelled mounts and plain polished wood usually oak. I stand aghast at some of the monumental frames which are literally architecture on religious frames in large Italian cathedrals for example the Titians which I have seen in Venice. You have demonstrated here Steve, how each person has their individual right to opinion and I respect that. I hope you will not be offended and think about my response and maybe this area of the art industry and see that I am passionate about every aspect of my art. It is difficult when you go into a framers to decide which frame is best as there is such a selection of mouldings available. Many take the advice of the framers as it's what they do all day long. I think this is a subject worth putting onto the forum and I thank you for highlighting it and bringing the matter to the fore. You can tell by the length of my reply that it is a very important matter and not one to be taken lightly. P.S I have continued to write an even longer response to this and hopefully it will be appearing as an article so Steve thank you again Martin Taylor responding to Steve Andrews and his suggestion of a frame for a picture. www.martintaylorartist.com www.gladwellpatterson.com

I'm an amateur, very little experience, me personally. I look beyond any frame. You can frame good work in paper doilies, It will still look good to the professional eye. Bad work won't look good. I think your work looks exceptional. I know nothing about framing but I found Steve's interpretation interesting. If I'm ever in that lucky position, I will make my own frames to suit my paintings. Not that I'll ever be in that position. I can dream on though. We are, our own masters of what we create from start to finish. Self reliant, no dependence, just a feeling of what sit's right, regardless of advice, you do what your heart feels. I wouldn't care about master framers, if I thought my idea was better, I would go with that. If the master framers idea was better, I would go with that. Only the artist will know how best their work will look without any advice from anyone.  

At the cost of walking where others fear to tread ,talk about storms in a tea cup ,wow two cliches for the price of one...there I go again.   It promoted an interesting insight into several things. Big man Steve .    

Where is my can of oil for troubled waters......   Steve was atrying to help, and I'd still like a link to the software he used because it does have its uses in assessing the composition afresh, apart from anything else.  The trouble with a heavy gold frame however in a painting in which gold predominates in the picture is that the two clash: and a bright gold frame is likely to dominate and diminish the painting.  I have a fondness for 'old gold' frames, but not for this painting. I don't have access to a professional framer right now - but if I can regain it, I'd always take the advice of a good one.  I frame what I can in temporary housings, as it were; but a good professional's judgement is invariably better than mine.