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February's forum challenge

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michael

Michael Edwards

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Don't get too hung up on the strict 'rules' of haiku Carol - they don't even translate into English that well with several western versions around - much like painting there is much room for artistic licence. Some great modern poets don't even always observe the 575 rule and often have them rhyming. . There are always purists out there so when I post one I often refer to it as a 575 and avoid its title - haiku. senryu, tanka etc. Here's one to inspire a painting. Clear glass window pane Large vistas of beyondness Winter approaches.

Brian J Mackay

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Michael! Is that your haiku? I think it's a beaut'. Do you post on the various poetry forums? Your name seems familiar. Bri

Brian J Mackay

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I am indeed, Michael, and have been writing for about 30 years, on and off, and have posted at PenShells (private members only site), Poets Graves, Babilu and the now defunct Critical Poet. I spent most of my formative years at The Critical Poet, making many good friends along the way. I like pretty much all genres but am particularly fond of metered verse and form poems. I'm also spending more time with short poems, such as haiku, which is why my eye was immediately drawn to your lovely turn in the close. Nice to meet a fellow enthusiast. My user names / sobriquets / pen names are J J Williamson and Titian dj. Best Bri (real name) *smile*
michael

Michael Edwards

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Really interesting Bri - i also love metred forms and have developed several of my own. nice to meet you - will look out the sites you mention. On all the sites as well as here I always use my real name.
DSCF4152

Anonymous User

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Hi, Michael, the 575 syllable count is somewhat hefty for modern haiku in the English language, and seem padded out. The workshops and on line courses I attend say seventeen syllables or less, less being the preferred amount, and believe me the people I have help from have been at this genre for decades, and they don't put up with any old words, and presenting a verse has to be thought about, no rule breaking with them, as they expect a high standard, otherwise we'd all be wasting each others time. The use of verbs nouns and adjectives are all important, and do my head in, but I'm getting there :) This is one of mine- ice melt... in the hospice garden forget me not blues

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by carol

michael

Michael Edwards

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I have to agree Carol and it is most demanding. I still prefer to keep to the 575 count which I find elegant but the whole issue is complex starting with how to interpret morae in the English language - the Americans, of course, have their own definitions and Societies. Even the use of nouns and adjectives is very subjective. That's why I tend to identify anything I write by syllable count and have recently been playing round with ukaih. Very much like art - for every 'expert' there's an opinion and there are plenty of them here in the UK many of whom have strayed from the Japanese concept beyond belief - in a nut shell write what suits you as an individual and to hell with what others think. There is a wealth of other poetry forms in which I write and these forms are only a small example but so useful when I haven't the time to write an 'epic'. As for yours Carol it's a gem. Have you thought about joining one of the poetry sites if you're not already a member?
DSCF4152

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Do a search for Matsuo Basho, Sylvia, a master of his art. This will definitely help with understanding what we are on about. Who knows, you might get into yourself :) hope so.
DSCF4152

Anonymous User

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The length of a syllable, I suppose depends on the language we speak but an interesting concept and one I will be looking at to advance my learning.

Brian J Mackay

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I read an article that said the Japanese mora (equivalent to a syllable ish) is different to the English syllable, in so much that a long vowel is one syllable in English but two morae in Japanese. In consequence the syllable count was reduced to roughly 13 or 14 for the English equivalent. In that respect it's difficult to find a pure English form of the haiku. Still, there are some great 17 syll's at 757 out there. I suppose it's down to personal choice. Bri

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by Beemax

michael

Michael Edwards

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There is another problem in that some words can have different syllable counts (library and extraordinary for example) depending upon pronunciation and accent. I'm off to write a villanelle or a cinquain or or an epulaeryu or a septolet or anything other than a haiku.

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by MichaelEdwards

michael

Michael Edwards

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February's Challenge is how to overcome the poetic high-jack -- Sorry folks.
michael

Michael Edwards

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Haiku Foundation includes on its website an Assignment of Copyright Notice for poets on death. I will start another stream on this subject rather than continue with the high-jack.
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