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Message
Posted
Raymond, you said it all !When a tutor guide a student and pass critics on the work, he has obviously seen several paintings and can positively make a judgement.When art critics view only one or two paintings from an artist they can have the wrong perception about the ability of work. One work can receive bad critics and again the artist is producing other great works.
Posted
Never assume there is only the one way. Never assume that error or perceived incompetence is bad. Never ever think that everyone agrees on what is good or competent. Competency, like perfection is something that is neither attainable nor desirable.
Some artists crave academic standards, some commercial standards, some intellectual standards etc. Some artists believe that there should be standards to keep up their perceived superior status...
There will always be a significant creative group who do not loose any sleep over competency or standards...
Art is a personal journey without any tour guides, maps or destination. In which a trail of souvenirs litter the path travelled...
I for one am bold enough not to fret whether or not my art is deemed competent in the eyes of that nefarious group of art intellectuals.
Posted
"Competence" is a word I can accept if it's accompanied by a few others... on its own, I find it a touch patronizing (eg, "a competent artist, but...." - the unspoken words being "uninspired", "pedestrian", "conservative" etc). I know the context in which the word was applied to Raymond's work, and I don't think any condescension was intended; but it can be somewhat slighting.
On the whole, I agree with the above, I think. But it's always a problem attaching words to processes which aren't readily explicable. There's a craft involved in painting, and an art - the former can help the latter, but without the latter no amount of the former will compensate.
Now work that one out... I sound like Donald Rumsfeld: must be the man-'flu.
Posted
I have had this question in the back of my mind all day today. I saw Raymonds post early this morning. I also know from where his question arises. I saw the comment and was a little taken aback by it, especially as I feel that Raymonds own work is some of the most "competent"in the gallery... meant without condecension but as a matter of fact. I think as has been stated above competance is the fore runner to creativity. Learning a craft , like playing the piano and throwing pots, just as examples pulled from the air.
Competence is neccesary to apply paint to paper,use perspective, colour mixing all the painterly gamut we all go through, and like it or not we all have it to a greater or lesser degree. Just in a learning process as we progress . Who is qualified to judge? I think the artist themselves are their own hardest critics I know when something is right or wrong, but sometimes need to ask someone I think is more competant than myself In my opinion. Is this making sense or am I on a ramble?????
Posted
I've been chewing on this and I think this is an impossible question and impossible to answer. At what level is someone deemed competent? The total beginner who has learned how to draw a competent stick figure? the competent beginner who has learned techniques with the medium? a competent amateur who has learned to produce a painting that received praise? a competent professional whose work sells well but would be considered traditional or a competent artist who experiments and takes their medium and art as far as they can? All are competent at some level.
Me I just paint. If I like it that's good enough for me. If I can see an improvement in my work over the years, I'm happy.
Posted
I don't know whether I'm competent or not, what I do know is that I paint with feeling and love for the subject. When my painting looks on canvas or paper as near to what I had in my mind, then I am happy.
There are thousands of people who are talented, with no formal qualifications, who are totally 'competent' but will always be unknowns. Art is a funny old thing.
Posted
I agree with Mel- and Neil, for me it,s simple and as long as you enjoy what you are doing and the way you are progressing, we all have own speed then dont worry, it,s not worth putting yourself under pressure, Art is a neverending scale of learning, if you worry to much about it then that,s when thing,s go wrong and you worry what other,s think and loose your confidance ! Just enjoy and keep going and the rest will look after itself? Harry.
Posted
You seem to be of the opinion that artists need to be qualified, to judge your work and as a tutor you are somehow above critical comment.Some of the artists on this site have a great deal of knowledge yet are still students,your lower level people.You cannot make judgements on other artists competency,just because you don't agree with them.As artists we can all apreciate the work that goes into your paintings,but if some artists find some of them boring or just competent,they are entitled to their opinions.We all sometimes get negative comments on our work,its how we begin to learn...
Posted
Well, it's all very well saying (Robin H) that you can't judge other artists' competence, but let's be honest here: we all do, whether we express that opinion or not. There is no one on the gallery that I think beneath comment, because everyone, including myself, is doing their best and we're all learning. But I'm more analytical, at least, of some people's work because I think there are ways in which they can improve and I hope I can help them do so based on my own experience. Perhaps you're right when you use the word "judge": none of us is really in a position to do that, but the more we know about processes and techniques, provided a painter is ready to employ them (& not all are, in which case one just tries to encourage) the more we're likely to suggest them and be aware of their lack.
Being inexperienced, however, doesn't - to quote someone - make you a bad person!
However, I think Raymond's question was intended to get inside this question of competence and examine it, not to set himself up as an authority over the rest of us. Certainly, competence is important if you're selling anything - at the very least, paintings need to stick together, not peel off the support, or crumble into dust for instance. And a degree of knowledge - or competence - is needed to avoid that.
Posted
"your work appears to be quite competent...nice"
This, I believe, is the starting point for Raymond's thesis...
Blue was correct. It was a comment about an artwork of Raymond's...
Mel. would perhaps have been circulating well above the flightpath of a jumbo jet reading that about his art...
Phil. would simply have deleted it from the comment in that galleries entry.
Mel. tries to maintain a standard in his published artworks and attempts to gain a competency in swimming...but then he was a cross-country athlete and still clocks up 10Km per week...
Posted
Well we can be lucky and find a patient and understanding Tutor who will allow your free expression to flow...there are some horrors out there and of this I have had experience.
Then there is the self taught artist where does this leave them incompetent? there are many on here who are self taught and wonderful artists they are too.
There are others who are either learning or like myself re-learning and coming to terms with today's materials and methods.
Are Tutors always necessary? the struggle to reach the place you want to reach and more is the same regardless of how you learn...and arn't we always learning otherwise how dull it would be if we stuck to the same format because it was successful.
On this wonderful site we have artists at all levels and styles if that's what you would call it...for myself who posts sporadically I have had constructive advice, help given without high handedness by commissioned artists who may not have the time but take it...never unkind
I don't like this separation between who is considered to be an artist and who is not...is not the person who loves to pick up a piece of art material and make marks an artist none the less...it dosn't have to be your style nor do you have to like it but at least respect the artist who makes this choice.
When we comment on members work we must of course expect comment back sometimes in kind...if someone takes the time to look at your work then it's only good manners to reciprocate...this is the way I see some lovely work that perhaps I might not have seen.
I think before we put our fingers to the keyboard we should think more along the lines of gentle and constructive critique and not criticism.
Posted
Well said Patsy.I have understood Raymond's question. I do not think that he was referring to his own work but more to students.A competent artist, amateur or not, - Can translate easily a feeling into painting.- Spot his, hers own mistakes and others.- Can give advise to others.- Can give critics- Can take critics with keeping a sense of humour.
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