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Watching paint dry
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Message
Posted
I bought some very cheap canvas panels from The Range just before Christmas; turns out the oil paint just won’t dry on them! After two months, the paint still felt sticky to the touch and flakes came off when I tried to add layers. I won’t use them again - consider my lesson learned - but wondered what the issue might have been? I’ve looked online but can’t see any reference to the painting surface causing this problem. I wasn’t doing or using anything else differently. Have now reverted to W&N panels and drying time has returned to normal.
Posted
They do sell some decent branded art materials, (not many but some), but I suspect that these are cheap and nasty Chinese imports.
Whatever has been applied as a ground over the canvas is definitely not a good quality gesso. I’m sure Robert will have some more technical explanation for your problem Emma.
Sounds like the oil paint is sitting on top of this layer, rather than sinking into it. Too late now, but a light sanding followed by a good thick coat of quality acrylic gesso would probably have solved this issue.
A lesson learned… don’t buy cheap imports!
Posted
These canvases tend to come coated with a fungicide - probably necessary given the atmospheric conditions where they're made and the distances they travel. Hold one up to a raking light, and you might see shiny spots - these need to be removed with a firm brush and if necessary ISO alcohol or warm water - leave them to dry, and then apply your own acrylic primer.
But better still, just don't buy them - panels from Belle Arti, Winsor and Newton, Daler-Rowney, Loxley, are good - and there's another one, whose name I've forgotten: a bit like Imbroglio, but only a very little bit....
The Range isn't a specialist art store, it's an outlet for hobbyists (though why hobbyists should have inferior products offered to them I don't know) and their sole advantage is that they're cheap: I daresay they have their place, but I wouldn't waste my expensive paint on cheap products - there are so many good online stores who will deliver to you far better materials.
Edited
by Robert Jones, NAPA
Posted
The annoying thing here is that not everything coming out of China is rubbish - but their entrepreneurs have discovered that there's nothing like catering to a relatively prosperous West to boost their own economy. You can still get beautiful watercolours, inks, brushes, pens, from China. But - you have to be very careful if you identify any far Eastern provenance: perhaps especially if it appears in The Range. Plus - it's not the case that all of this stuff comes from China: India, Korea, Vietnam, all tend to take their revenge on perfidious Europe by sending us junk (not IN a junk, obviously..).
In truth - it's just about money: how to make it quickly without worrying too much about what you're selling; and I fear THAT'S not restricted to the Far East, by any means, either.
Posted
Thank you Alan and Robert - The Range normally sells W&N which is why I went there, but they only had these in…ah well, that’ll teach me! Luckily I only bought 3. I might follow Alan’s advice and try priming the remaining one, see what I can salvage. And yes, not all Chinese stuff is rubbish - I love my Chinese brushes, and anything that comes from traditional Chinese painting is usually good quality.
More worryingly, I saw something very similar on sale in Hobbycraft, but at three times the price, which would be very painful if it’s the same quality.
Posted
I’ve had similar issues with ‘cheaper’ canvasses, from the Range (and other art shops), but with acrylic paint not adhering on parts of the canvas or board. (The shiny spots Robert mentioned above)
I still buy them (stretch canvas and canvas boards). Box canvas, however, I stick to my favourite brand (Loxley), but even they have on occasion had the same issue…
So now I routinely add a couple of coats of gesso primer to every canvas I use, cheap or expensive brand.
Posted
Good practice, Helen, but do also scrub those shiny particles out, or all you'll be doing is covering them with acrylic primer (aka "gesso") which might also shrink from the surface in time: I had that problem, and it really wasn't MUCH time, either - nearly ruined one of my best acrylics, until I got in there, scrubbed the rubbish off, and went in with fresh primer and paint.
Posted
This rings a bell with me. I've got my first two oils on the go (yes, Cobra miscible) But clearly my lean is too fat! Neither are ready for fiddling with. I think it'll take a fortnight.
So, I think I'll start a third, in Georgian oils, duplicating one of the miscibles that are half complete (if I've got the same pigments). Now that will be a good test/comparison.
Posted
Yes that’s a good idea Collette. I used Cobra and others for about three years when I started going to a class where the tutor had had health concerns and therefore we all used them. I found them ‘sticky’ at first but did get used to them eventually! Have now switched back to what I think of as ‘real oils’ and definitely prefer them.
I think the solution with WM is to find the right mixing medium which suits you. We were told not to use water which may seem strange.
Good luck and do let us know how you get it on.
Posted
Norette, I think, Tessa - Collette hasn't chipped in on this one.
Interesting that your tutor said you shouldn't use water in your painting with Cobra w/m oils: that makes them even more a solution trying to catch a problem than I'd have thought they were - presumably, the advice was to use the specially modified mediums they sell rather than water; probably quite good advice if you use this product, or W & N's Artisan: but it will trap you into using just that paint with just that medium. Companies aren't very forthcoming about the components of ther w/m paints, so I would worry (if I used them) that a medium you could use with one wouldn't be suitable for use with the others (of which there are now several, apart from Cobra and W & N).
I can understand why an art-class tutor would use water miscible oils - it overcomes a number of practical problems, and probably helps a lot with gaining public liability insurance. If I were to run an art-class in oil, though, I'd use regular oils but with no solvents at all, which achieves the same purpose as water-miscible oils, but with a product that was infinitely more pleasurable to use and more productive of good results. Bearing in mind what can be done with just Linseed Oil (in its several forms) I don't know why more of us don't use just that. Turps is useful, if that's the way you paint, but not suitable for a classroom you have to hire out by the session, because it's almost bound to violate their terms and conditions.
The only real reason I don't use Turps or other thinners is that I had a bad lung infection which Turps made a lot worse: it was one of those light-bulb moments to discover that I didn't need to use it at all, and didn't need, therefore, water-miscible oils.
Posted
No worries, Tessa, I've been called worse than that! :)
Well, I used thinner on my ground for the Georgian example. It went on much more smoothly than the Cobra, and obviously leaner. I hope it dries quickly.
I think I understand the no water ruling in that just a little too much and the paint splits into blobs and you have to bash it like a bad steak to get it to blend. Although, I'm not sure on the oil only rule ( that yourself and Virgil recommend), Robert, as it might be difficult for me (a beginner) to get a lean ground.
Reading Virgil's lust of pigment properties, my choice of a lively landscape with a Cad red light ground with Titanium and a tot of cad yellow, will tend to the fat side of things.
(I've left my typo in! ) 😅
It's all very tricky, but I'm the sort that finds it interesting.