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Constructive Criticism
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Message
Posted
This point has no doubt been raised before but perhaps it is worth airing again.
What is the point of the Gallery on this site? Is it simply to display work in the hope of receiving plaudits from as many people as possible?
Admittedly it is encouraging to have lots of compliments and we all hope people will like our work. My point is that surely there is also a place for constructive criticism - the friendly kind of comment one might receive from an art group. Personally I would welcome thoughtful feedback along the lines of, 'Very impressive but have you thought of trying...........?' or 'I do admire your style but wonder if ..........'
Obviously I am not talking about harsh or cutting remarks that would be hurtful, but would any of us really be offended by friendly guidance from online 'friends'?
Posted
No reason at all that people can't do that John. All depends how you view it. Personally I see this site as a large art gallery with an ever changing selection of all types of painting that I can visit and wander around as and when I wish, re-visit and have my own works included too. Another site may be needed for the critical analysis type of bisecting of works you describe, but I think it would soon lead to argument and would hardly encourage beginners, nervous or hesitant people to submit their efforts. I think we all might be prompted to comment on our own views of how things should be irrespective of right or wrong, something all too easy to do and something we all are guilty of at times, but it isn't the way I see this site. I think it would breed ten thousand chin-stroking art critics and would be art teachers if I'm being honest. I hasten to add, this is just my view and that alone....😉
Edited
by Wanderer69
Posted
I agree 100%, John. When posting a work on the Gallery, I always ask for "constructive criticism" but nobody is giving it. Maybe my work is that good (lol)?
http://www.painters-online.co.uk/artist/MiaKetels
Posted
I can see both points of view but I think I lean towards Wanderer's view. Whilst I agree that all the comments made on the Gallery seem to be positive, I don't think this is the part of the site for critique. You could put your painting on the Forum and ask for advice and comments and once asked, a lot of artists are willing to post helpful hints and tips. This has been shown countless times. But artists giving critique when not asked for would, as Wanderer suggests put off some very hesitant artists, some of whom are just starting out. The Gallery is a great area to just browse and comment if you wish and if you would like critique just ask!
Posted
Encouragement can be just as helpful as criticism. If there is a comment saying, for example, 'I like the way you have painted the sky' it brings to the attention of the artist the good points of the work rather than emphasising the bad points which is just as helpful. I must admit that where someone is clearly making no progress at all there may be room for suggesting a different approach entirely and that's where it can become a little tricky but overall I think emphasising the good points can be as helpful as pointing out the bad.
Of course the artist can always read between the lines if a positive comment is left against, say, a nude saying 'I really love the way you've painted her big toe'.
Posted
The point is much the same as the point would be of showing your work anywhere else: if you're trying to communicate something, however vague, you only have a chance of doing so if people can see it. (Some have seen POL as a test-bed from which they've then gone on to higher things - which I confess to finding a little irritating; not good enough for you now, are we? Bridle; huff.)
I don't think that has much to do with expressing or appreciating criticism - what anyone expressing criticism has to remember, as do those on the receiving end of it, is that it might be wrong; but if there's an obvious problem with a piece of work, you've got three choices here: you can ignore it, and not comment on it at all; you can praise it in general and pretend you've not noticed the fault (or maybe you just didn't); or you can address the problem, preferably pointing out that if you didn't think the work or the artist had promise you wouldn't bother them with your thoughts. I don't mind criticism at all, but I reserve the right to disagree with it; I think that if people show their work in public, they have to expect it to be criticized (in the sense of appraised, analysed, thought about - which is what real art criticism is). Any artist - any adult, come to that - should be prepared for that, and even be grateful for it: always provided the criticism doesn't amount to "my five year old/a chimpanzee on drugs/my dog could do better than that in a dark cellar with his eyes shut".
All I ask is that we don't get reduced to some of the gushing guff you can find on Facebook: "Oh it's brilliant/lovely/fabulous; oh it could be a photograph [this is praise?]" applied to some hideous daub that ought to have been suppressed under the Obscene Publications Act, horizon line at an acute angle, colours as washed-out as weak tea, figure or animal drawing so amazingly out of joint anatomically as to make it impossible for the subject even to move. (I'm more forgiving of aerial perspective errors though; given it was pointed out to me that a rabbit I'd included would have to be the size of a modest bungalow in order to be seen clearly where I'd placed him: happily it was an acrylic - bunny painted out now, and I sold the picture.)
Posted
All points accepted as relevant and fair. I would just add this: How do you differentiate (unless told) between those who just paint for pleasure and those selling their work or promoting sites? In my case I'm simply an amateur for pleasure and I've never sold a painting in my life ( correction, I did just once as a commision and felt guilty taking the money-which wasn't very much anyway). Seperate sites or sections for critique is probably the way to go, but I've seen such go really wrong because, since when did artists ever agree anyway? History is littered with such difference of opinion as reading the lives of artists ( which I do) is more entertaining than the Beano at times. What chance we then of agreeing...? 🙂
Posted
None whatsoever, I should think! This site does reflect its origins of course - Leisure Painter and The Artist magazines are aimed at different, but not entirely exclusive, groups: and the site reflects that.
Does it matter, though? I haven't much time for these categories, and the Gallery hasn't either, really: OK there are some who have obviously been painting for decades, others who have just begun, and it's no great challenge to tell them apart - but I don't see why either (let's assume there are just the two for the sake of argument) should be apprehensive about criticism or resent it and object to it: maybe if 'appraisal' were the word we used instead of criticism, although I doubt it'd help much. I don't have a problem with the Gallery as it is: I don't think people are put off in general (ultra-sensitive souls may be, but you can't run anything on the basis that the most vulnerable will object: you just wouldn't do anything or say anything). And if we're talking about being offended, I get much more annoyed (never a hard thing to achieve, I admit) by the 'ooh it's LUVLY Ethne!' when it plainly b. well isn't school. (We haven't actually GOT an Ethne, have we...?)
Lights blue touchpaper - artfully retires behind shed....
Posted
eh I have to chuckle at that rabbit Robert ,,,,,,. heres my latest troll.
--Alan ,that ,s got to be one of the worst watercolours I,ve seen from anyone less than totally amateur
(((and I thought it was not half bad ,it was all bad ,, hee hee )))) thanks for your confidence in me .sir .,and my wife agrees with you ,,
Posted
Ok Robert, I'll risk getting blown sky-high, but I have questions that I have always thought relevant? What is an acceptable level for talent or expressionism in art, and is there such an animal. Was Vincent Van Gogh a genius in his actual painting, was Paul Gaugin, is Everard Munch's scream brilliant painting or something most fouteen year olds could better? Who says the Klee's and the Mondrians carpet tiles are genius and how did Tracy Emin's confessional scratchings get her appointed as professor of drawing at the R.A?( Hey, that question has been asked a hundred times without an answer that relates to talent) . Are Henri Matisse's cut outs high end art, or just an old man's doodling living off past reputation? Can the questions and a million like them be answered in a way acceptable to all? If the answer is yes, collect £200 and escape jail. 😉
Posted
I have been s subscriber of the artist magazine for a number of years and have been viewing the gallery and forum with interest but had not contributed through lack of confidence. This year I decided to post some of my paintings in the gallery. This was the first time that anyone has seen them besides family and friends. My main aim was to see if anyone would actually look at them and to my delight I have had a few views and a couple of comments. I don't think I would have posted if I thought the work would be critiqued and I am sure I am not alone in this. I do think a separate area for critiquing would be a good idea for people who want some feedback and in future I may well wish to place a few in there if it existed. I like the way the gallery allows everyone, irrespective of their ability, to have the freedom of showing their work.
Heather
Edited
by Robin