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Constructive Criticism
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Message
Posted
Some very interesting contributions to the debate. Thank you everyone for your comments. One thought that springs to mind is that all the 'nice' comments that we all welcome are, of course, purely subjective opinions of our efforts. Any thoughtful appraisals of our paintings which included helpful, well intentioned advice would also necessarily be subjective criticism and, as such, could be ignored if the artist disagreed. I must add that the idea of a tick box which meant critiques are welcomed appeals to me.
Posted
Sometimes I see beginners' paintings and feel that I must give them a helping hand and make constructive suggestions i.e. how to correct beginners errors. On the whole they have been well received, but I would not want to build up a relationship, where the beginner would be constantly striving my attention. I don't have all the answers anyway and am not an expert, but it would be rude to simply ignore them.
I seem to remember a couple of years back, one beginner was posting daily and seemed to expect daily comments. I withdrew from that and let others carry on, but I'm not sure how you broke the dependency relationship.
But I think the tick box idea could work well, where a critique is wanted. I am always a little scared of upsetting people by commenting, so having the green light would help.
Posted
John's (Picturethis) idea of the ticked box is a good idea. Welcome to the Forum John. But make the box BIG, 'cos some people (i.e. me in particular may not notice). I live by my rule of 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all'. But that idea seems to be so outdated nowadays and besides, I don't want to foist my ideas on other people as I make lots of mistakes myself.
Wanderer, those questions have and always will be asked time and time again. I remember some time ago asking if anyone was annoyed that they hadn't thought of painting something very similar to 'The Scream' before Munch as it is such a simple concept and how many times do us artists clutch our heads in such anguish whilst having a bad art day? What makes a 'work of art' and why do they pay so much for them. The answer is that we will never know but it is jolly annoying.
Posted
What a debate! I am a comparative newcomer and if I thought my work would be criticised I would never have started posting any of my work, it took me long enough to have the confidence to do it. I am so thrilled when a good comment is made on my work that it pushes me on to do more. If any negative comments been made I would have been off and you wouldn't have seen me for dust! I'm only painting to please myself and, like Wanderer, never sold anything. I so enjoy seeing others' work and strive to improve mine all the time. I have seen on a number of occasions negative comments made (especially by someone on this very forum) and thought how awful and demoralising it must be and what type of person would do that when a crit was not asked for. If you don't like a painting don't comment.
There is a WIP section on this forum which could be used to ask opinions but a tick box would be ideal. Get the ball rolling, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to add a little box.
Posted
I do like a bit of constructive criticism but I hate to give it to other artists as art is very subjective. Many a time I have been given opposing advice by friends or family members and then it just becomes confusing as to what to do.
I used to go to an art club that had a crit ' evening once a month. We would take two paintings each and then we would discuss all the paintings in turn. I learnt a lot from those evenings and it was worth the critiscm as I would go home and try much harder, but saying it and writing it down is very different as the written word can sound much harsher and it is there in print forever.
it would be rather nice to have a guest critiquer ( perhaps an artist that has written articles for Leisure Painter or The Artist) to look over the weeks paintings on this site and perhaps pick a handful to write a critical paragraph or two on them.
Posted
I'm going to have a John Wayne moment and ride into town with guns blazing.
I draw for fun. I enjoy the creative buzz (and the intellectual stimulus) in a drawing as much as I do when hitting the "Record" button in my music studio or playing those first notes on stage (day job). I'm also more than happy to put my stuff out there alongside people who draw/ paint/ sculpt/ collage very well and produce thought provoking material for money. I want to shout about it, not hide it away in some special room.
A lot of the trouble is that everybody today demands nothing but praise for everything, even material of poor quality, and we pussy-foot around them fearful of upsetting those who simply can't handle the truth - look at the number of "Awesome" comments on a Youtube vid of some evil swine covering a Spice Girls song. If the best point of a "Nude by Alan" is that I've drawn the toe well, then I'm happy for people to say "Great toe Alan, but the rest really is cobblers".
So, here's my art. You don't like it? Fine, shoot me down in flames. I'll learn and I'll be back; better and stronger (and with a bigger gun)
Edited
by alang23
Posted
Good morning one and all. 😆
Less any of this appears aggressive, please be assured it really isn't, just the opposite. Just chat and a Sunday view of life through the Lancashire rain.
One of the reasons I dislike criticism as anything other than personal opinion in a site such as this is that it creates visible skill levels where none need exist and discourages the less talented or just beginning by not offering praise for effort, thus encouragement. There is no need to patronise, indeed no need sometimes to comment at all. Leave that to commercial art where those needing competition can get it judged by whether they end up driving a Jag or a ten year old Fiat Punto etc. Communal art of the sort we practise here should be an entry free art gallery with everyone welcome and no one made to feel patronised, less or better than anyone else. Sure, the levels exist in every form, that's a fact of life, but there must be specific places of choice ( those boxes etc which are a good idea for those hesitant about wearing hair shirts or those needing accrylic sadism and bondage good hidings about a sketch of their bad hair day, can go willingly to weep and gnash teeth about whether green-eyed viridian or fifty shades of purple is the way to go for painting cabbages.) or not as the case may be. That's willing and asked for criticism but, like ice cream or gluten free runner beans, must have the option to be left alone or no.
Okay, that'll do for now. Enjoy your breakfasts..... 😉
Edited
by Wanderer69
Posted
In the days of the old POL site, Posting as Meltemi, my art posted in the gallery always had a written statement about the art and the final words were always.."Your comment & criticism is most welcome"...
Back then I could hold and control a brush and paint with style for hours on end.
Today my gallery contains just a sample of my old works...but with one new 'Danish Cross' an effort that took several weeks to execute.
Edited
by philk2
Posted
Well done Pat. The last entries to the 'critique' section looks like a year ago so it has been long forgotten. I don't think we are cliquey Sylvia, perhaps some artists think the Forum is a site for intellectuals - yeah right!. You only have to look at the posting that Rich put on asking us if we could identify that painting. Bet he wasn't expecting such a lot of silly comments from us! Still we had such fun with it.
Obviously the old 'critique' site doesn't seem to work and perhaps those boxes would be better. However I understand what Alan is saying and the most loathsome word for me nowadays is "awesome". But you do have to tread a fine line between encouragement and proper critique and, let's fact it, you are never going to please everyone. So just do your art, put it out there and just ask if you need help and advice.
Posted
Phil - the cross painting shows you've still got it, even if it's taking you much longer to produce paintings than it did. I have my own problems in these directions, but one of the biggest of them was resolved very recently when I got my new glasses to go with my new lens, so I'm short of excuses now. Does pacing yourself perhaps hold the secret to your continuing to paint? I've long been unable to work on things for more than an hour at a time - and it's very frustrating; but I'm getting used to it, slowly.
Posted
And of course the fact that they're not technically competent today has no bearing at all on whether they'll stay like that or get better. I don't have a problem with that: the ones that irk me are those who don't see a need to improve, because a basic level of competence will better help them express what they have to say - if anything - than a lack of it. There are at least three painters who have shown here, two of whom still do the other is very busy holding exhibitions and selling his work, who were not much cop when they started out but have improved to an astonishing degree - actually now I come to count them up, more than three - as many as half a dozen. They all received good advice - only some of it from me, he simpered modestly - and they acted on it (which is why I think it's worthwhile giving advice if you see something someone could do better if only s/he knew how: OK you may offend a few, but so what? It's very satisfying to see others take advice and improve beyond all measure in consequence).
It's also worth remembering that by comparison with some of the artists you mention, we're ALL students - and we can all get better through practice. But I'll have to start on that tomorrow, the weekend is my grand pig-out of the week, and tonight I have steak and onion pie, with accompanying libations. I have to drown my sorrows now I learn that your £200 is not coming my way.
Posted
https://youtu.be/e6fMDF0vmHc try this Robert