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Can you help identify this 15c oil painting?
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Posted
I've looked at the website now, and it seems that my guess about the Emperor Charles, which I hesitated to advance in case it left me looking stupid, was not far off - or at least, that the Holy Roman Empire and all its works has struck others as being the source from which the painting came. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have helped them any more than it's helped me.
I did notice the odd pillars, and wondered why they'd been painted like that - the website offers suggestions, including that the painting has been re-mounted on wood from an original panel; that, as has been observed there, would have been an extremely skilled operation; so this painting, while not from a master's hand, nonetheless had a great deal of importance to someone, at some time. What that importance was is the question - that £1,000 seems to be drifting farther and farther from my frenzied grasp.
I have a feeling, though it's essentially one I've picked up from the website, that the whole secret of the painting lies with those sombrely dressed women on the right, who seem to be in the costume of nuns; and I could be convinced by the theory that they're in some sense hostages. But the truth is - I dunno!
Posted
The real puzzle in this painting is the Moorish fellow with the red cape. It has been suggested that it is Alessandro d'Medici, otherwise known as "Il Moor". However, looking at other portraits of this fellow, he was clean shaven an and only half Moorish, as he was born of a servant girl in the Medici family and probably fathered by the Pope! But the painter, was working in retrospect and probably did not see him.
The feathered cap is very much like the one that Henry VIII wore in one of his younger portraits - and you know what they say -"If the cap fits"....
Posted
I feel there's a very heavy religious presence in this work as I think the guy in black isn't Valentine Dyall, but a church dignitary with his nuns' chorus in tow, rosary beads in prominence. Know ing the eternal power struggles between crown and cross, this seems to portray just that, the guy with all the ermine and pearls, Gucci flip-flops and dressed by Victoria's Secret being not on the side of the angels and possibly being accused of getting the mother superior pregnant, hence the hand on stomach. Probably nothing of the sort......but hey, who knows....? (-: .
Posted
If there's one thing I'm confident of about this painting, and there isn't much, it's that this has nothing to do with Henry VIII - I don't believe it's an English painting, even though the man in the scholar's robe does look a bit like Thomas Cromwell: the rest of the elements don't work to suggest anything in Henry's life, at any stage of it; and anyway, the central figure looks nothing like Henry either looked, or would have wanted to be painted like looking. The interesting character to me is the man in red, with the chin jutting forward - it's the Habsburg chin, but .... you would have expected the Emperor Charles, if that's who it is, to be more prominently displayed and more richly clad. Still - I bet it's supposed to be him.
But I'm still not qualifying for the £1,000.
Posted
Just thought ld like to see a portrait of a youngish Henry VIII. the portraits are not exactly Holbein's, if they were, then there would not be the same level of disagreement, about who the characters are.
If the man in red is Charles V, then the painting could be a representation of his attitude to Henry and Catherine of Aragon, rather than a representation of an actual meeting. the building and landscape are pure fantasy, so perhaps the rest is just more imagination. Although I have made the argument for Henry, I am not 100 % convinced. The red figure still looks like a Moor to me, of whom there were quite few in Europe.
Posted
If it is an early Spanish painting, is could bee a Moorish noblemen confronting Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella of Castile about his harsh treatment or expunction (1492). After all "who would have expected the Spanish Inquisition". However Isabella is not usually depicted like this lady, even though she was a Catholic monarch. The lady looks more like, Catherine and the "King" looks more like Henry than Ferdinand.
Did any Moorish noblemen ever go to Henry and Catherine, to entreat them to use their influence with Charles V for better treatment?
There were quite a few Moors floating around medieval Europe, but which one is this? Even Thomas More, was of Moorish descent. One suggestion was Alessandro di Medici (Il Moro), but he had little or no beard. Do we have any Spanish historians on this site?
Posted
Posted
Doubt it - now if you were a good Catholic, you'd know that cardinals back then, and certainly Richelieu, wore - depending on the circumstances - red, or purple, or ermine. The dull lot today wear an undress uniform of black trimmed with scarlet, but it wasn't in use then; and anyway, the period is wrong for Richelieu, by around 100 years.
So no cigar this time (mine arrived this morning! Weekend almost all prepared for....).
The man in black is a bit of a puzzle; the women are dressed as either Catholic nuns or simply widows; he looks like a scholar or court official, or lawyer, rather than a religious figure.
And we're still no nearer to identifying the subject...... we are not destined for wealth....