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Cadmium and "cadmium free"
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Message
Posted
A bit of a consumer survey - I take the view of those promoting "cadmium free" reds and yellows that they're trying to take advantage of concerns raised about heavy metals to promote the sale of other, cheaper to make, paints. So that's my bias identified and admitted.
Nonetheless, many of you will surely have used cadmium free paint, and of course the original cadmium reds and yellows (and the horrible Cad Green). How, by comparison, did you find them? Not where, but how you've found them in use? I should be interested to know.
Posted
Robert, I'm not exactly sure just what paints you are referring to, which is why, after looking at some of mine, I hadn't responded. I see that I have a cadmium red hue (a cheaper paint which is why it is a hue colour), and have several different reds like a couple of napthols and a pyrolle, is that what you were referring to? I do have a couple of cadmium yellows which are not hue (medium and deep, I like the deep but hardly ever use it), and I tend to tone down the yellow with yellow ochre. For some unknown reason I bought arylamide yellow light (which is anything but!), it looks exactly the same as the cadmium medium - is that one you would call cadmium free? Must say I've never come across cadmium green, didn't think green was one of the cadmiums?
Posted
Robert I use Cadmium hues, which as you know don’t have the same vibrancy or stability of cadmium paint, having double checked it not classy as cadmium free which uses different materials. I suppose as it had no cadmium in it then it must be cadmium free , confusing but I recon the manufacturers will sell it as being different and better than the cadmium free paints . Reasons given for excluding the cadmium is risk if inhaling as a power form or when sanding etc, can’t imagine sanding a watercolour but I don’t know about any other painting material that would be sanded down. Late answering as I wanted to be sure of my facts, I know your a stickler for having the correct information. Sandra I’ve never heard of the yellow colour you have named before, so many different shades available these days.
Posted
Arylamide yellow is a separate colour family, not a Hue colour (though it could be used in a Hue, and here's where the confusion lies). All yellows and reds other than cadmiums are by definition cadmium-free; and sometimes, we'd prefer to use them, rather than the pure cadmium pigment. What's happening now though is that some manufacturers are offering paints they describe as specifically cadmium-free, as though they were "safer", less potentially polluting, than the genuine cadmiums. And they're offering this range of paints as a specific alternative to the real pigment: as if they looked so similar you could still get the look of the real cadmium without its drawbacks (such as they are). So I wanted to discover, from those who have bought paint from these ranges - Winsor and Newton offer them, among others - if in their opinion they compete with or could replace cadmium in their palette.
Even leaving aside the issue of quality and depth, the manufacturers are in reality providing Hue colours, but presenting them in a new, marketable, way - which I think is cynical, but I wouldn't care if these new ranges approached the properties of cadmiums in any way. They are also implying that cadmium is more hazardous than it actually is, intending to exploit people's wish to avoid pollutants. Again, that's cynical: but if it were a REAL alterative - again, you wouldn't mind or complain (well, I might; but most wouldn't).
I find that the cadmium alternatives, however they're described - sometimes as, e.g., Cad Yellow (Hue) or as Cad Yellow (cadmium free) - ARE sometimes as good as or better than the genuine pigment, in certain applications - e.g., pure cadmium yellow can be an unnatural addition to a watercolour palette if you're trying to paint the English countryside. If you want the full strength, though, I've not yet found a claimed alternative to it that has its strength and opacity (the latter being one of the reasons why it can be a problem in watercolour).
Not sure if I've made this any clearer, to be honest! You'd know what I meant if you'd seen the products advertised, as they recently have been.
Cadmium Green does exist, yes: it's a very opaque, saturated green which requires a far more senstitive brush than mine if it's to represent anything in landscape, even mixed. It's expensive, as they all are, and I've only seen it on others' palettes: it's not on mine.
Posted
Several colours have been intrduced by manufacturers to look very much like Cadmium colours but they don't mix with other colours with quite the same results as the genuine Cadmiums. But I think in time I have got used to working without them. The same applied to Lead White which I took some time getting used to being without, now I only ever use Titanium White and it appears to work well enough.
Posted
Ive not tried the cadmium free versions so far Robert. It would interesting to see how it would work in a Zorn palette, or if it would upset the balance.
Just going off piste here, I looked into Jacksons on-line this morning and am pondering oil sticks. I had one in my late mothers materials, Titanium white, but it was a very fat stick which had gone melty and gooey, so I disposed of it. I noticed Sennelier do sample packs with much thinner sticks, so I'm waiting for the selection I fancy to come back into stock.
I think I need them for the kind of detail where I struggle to control the paint brush. Does anyone here use them for detail?
Posted
I’ve got oil bars which may also be classified as sticks… not to be confused with oil pastels - Several different manufacturers including Sennelier, I’ll check out the other brand and come back with more info… it could be something like R&F brand… in fact I’ve just checked and it was.
I was supplied them by Jackson’s a few years back now, to write a feature for TA. I also bought a few others that I needed… they aren’t cheap as I recall.
Personally, I didn’t find them to be useful for detail, and to be fair, I haven’t used them since writing that article. The ones I had were quite fat and they can get sticky in hot weather/climate conditions…I used a scalpel blade to trim some down to a point for detail work.
But, others may have a different experience with them, I know Fiona has or had some at one time.
I’d be interested in seeing a pic of the ones you’re interested in Norrette.
This was one of the images that I produced with them, a brush with traditional oils would have been easier in my opinion. I set up my prop outside early morning, it was a pretty warm start to the day and they were sticky. Some of the finer details like on the plate were possibly added with a pen… hard to remember back after all this time.
Edited
by Alan Bickley
Posted
What suits one may not suit another, but I remember being deeply disenchanted by pigment sticks, and like my paint in tubes - not, for instance, all over my hands. But I never want to dissuade others from trying something they've not used before.
I wouldn't use them again - I don't even remember what I did with them, but being prone to occasional fits of rage (not so much these days) I've a feeling I flung them away.
Reverting to my theme - I've used all sorts of yellows and reds, through all media: it's the desperate marketing that gets under my skin, rather than any particular problem with colours; but a) when you need a cadmium colour - well, that IS what you need; nothing else can offer that depth, even though it's quite possible, of course, to paint without them; and b) George, I can, with difficulty, still get hold of lead chromate in most of its forms - and I'm hoping that a private purchase of Rublev lead white will complement my stock of Cremnitz and Flemish White, and last me until they carry me out in one of those nice long boxes.
And to close - hurry! There's an oil paint sale on at Jackson's, just about all ranges covered. Probably not lead white, though.
Posted
Either of these, were what I had in mind, Alan. I wouldn't use for a complete painting, just for final touches perhaps. I looked at the R&Fs but they are described as having a higher wax to oil ratio...I have oil pastels and I dont like the wax in those (even the so called water mixable ones.) I'm waiting for someone to invent an ultra skinny dispenser of oil paint like a pastel/charcoal pencil ....probably impossible - else it would already be on the market.
Yes, good sale on the Jacksons website, Robert. It was their email which 'led' me to the oil sticks.
They still look fat, despite being called 'mini'.
Apols for hijacking your thread Robert et al.
They still look fat, despite being called 'mini'.
Apols for hijacking your thread Robert et al.
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