Painters Online Logo

Login/register

Studio

Renoir's Boating girl.

Welcome to the forum.

Here you can discuss all things art with like-minded artists, join regular painting challenges, ask questions, buy and sell art materials and much more.

Make sure you sign in or register to join the discussions.

Hang on Studio Wall
Showing page 1 of 3
Author
Message
forum pic p.o

Peter Smith

  • Esteemed User
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 733
Posted
I love Renoir's 'The luncheon of the boating party' but it's a huge picture. The figures are not far off life size:  I downloaded the best image I could find and cropped it so I just had the girl leaning on the railing: It's pretty fuzzy but just about useable for trying a copy: I thought it was OK when I first did it but when I looked with fresh eyes this morning I hated it. Her off white top looks fine in the context of the whole picture but not in what is basically a portrait. I'd got her face all wrong too. So.....I turned over the Renoir and just started painting. Almost nothing of the original has survived but I do think I've ended up with a better picture: Until I look at it again tomorrow morning of course! Before you all shout at me please note that I am not trying to improve on Renoir (!!!), just trying to make my own picture a bit better. Peter

Edited
by Peter Smith

forum pic p.o

Peter Smith

  • Esteemed User
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 733
Posted
They're never finished are they - I've done a bit more to her face.
With Sarah, Phil, Ellen, Rose the dentist, and the granddaughter whose name I forget.

Robert Jones, Napa

  • Prestige User
  • Reputation: 24791
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 8641
Posted
No, they never are .... the only way I stop myself returning to a painting like a total obsessive is by starting another one.  I have two points to make about this one - one, I'm not convinced by the hand cupping the face - the fingers seem to extend all the way down to the wrist: and yes, hands are VERY difficult!  The other point is one we've had an exchange of views about before - those eyes are BIG: take a look in a mirror at your own (granted, you won't have the embellishments that young women often apply to theirs: at least - I assume you won't) and you'll see that you have a tendency to make them too long: this distorts the shape of the face; as a rule of thumb, most of us have room for another eye between the two we've got; the space between them normally reflects that: that's not the case with these eyes, because you've compensated for their being too long by reducing that difference.   Up to a point, this is a matter of individual style - if you're not looking for anatomical accuracy (and you don't need to) then you can exaggerate or adapt as much as you like: but little nit-pickers like me will always come along and criticize if the eyes are, as in this case, trespassing too far against the planes of the face.   I like your choice of colours, and the "feel" of the painting, and feel the hand is probably the bigger problem with it - get someone to model the pose for you - you need to show the back of the hand (you know; the bit you're probably longing to hit me with): the girl needs knuckles!
With Sarah, Phil, Ellen, Rose the dentist, and the granddaughter whose name I forget.

Robert Jones, Napa

  • Prestige User
  • Reputation: 24791
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 8641
Posted
PS - Renoir did make that hand a bit fuzzy, didn't he.... maybe you're trying to get the detail in that he didn't, but it's not a very clear model to work from: grab someone off the street if you have to, but get 'em to do the pose for you.  
My Profile pic16

Lewis Cooper

  • Prestige User
  • Reputation: 6309
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 2573
Posted
I think copying the masters now and then is a good idea, you learn a lot.   I've done a few...Manet, Mucha and Renoir.  I'd imagined Renoir  would be the easiest because his work seems simpler...in fact I had the most trouble with him. Roberts points about the eyes and hand are well made.  The trouble with portraits is having to assess minor differences, and getting them wrong most of the time.  You haven't given your girl enough forehead, look at Renior's, OK the forehead is covered by a fringe, but it's still there.  Look at her mouth, it's not much wider than her nose...this is, dare I say it of Renior, wrong.  Most people's mouths ARE wider than their nose.  The mouth on your painting is much closer to how most people look.  But you are copying HIS painting. Most faces conform to a set of proportions, it's the tiny differences that are difficult, but those differences stop us all looking exactly the same.  You'll know that of course.  It's finicky getting it right. If you haven't tried it, have a shot at using the grid system.  A time honoured and trusted system.  You draw a grid on your source photo, then draw the grid - in the same proportions - on your canvass.  It will help you get everything in the right place.  Look up the grid system on the internet.  If you think it's cheating, it isn't, it's been used by artists forever.  Here's a photo taken by Alphonse Mucha that he's gridded up, he would transfer this grid to his canvass... I didn't grid my Renior copies, just drew them freehand, and wasn't happen with the result.  I did grid my Manet and Mucha pics and thought they were better. I fully agree with your 'never finished' comment...mine are finished when I stop fiddling with them and move on to the next one. There's one other thing we have to contend with...we're never completely happy with them...I guess that's inevitable.  Our inner critic is a right fusspot, mine gets on my nerves. When I saw this in the gallery, I knew instantly what it was, so you didn't get it all wrong.  Effectively you're doing a portrait.  In my opinion the toughest subject.
forum pic p.o

Peter Smith

  • Esteemed User
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 733
Posted
I agree with everything you say chaps and thanks for taking the time. I did a bit more to the picture yesterday but by then it was too dark to photograph it so I'll post another picture later on this morning.
forum pic p.o

Peter Smith

  • Esteemed User
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 733
Posted
See if this looks better:

Sylvia Evans

  • Prestige User
  • Reputation: 16928
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 4788
Posted
You always add your own twist to your ladies Peter.  Like this little lady a lot. Do not take  Roberts advice and grab someone off the street.  You might get into trouble.
forum pic p.o

Peter Smith

  • Esteemed User
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 733
Posted
That's a shame, I was looking forward to it. I suppose the screams might have disturbed the neighbours! Peter

Edited
by Peter Smith

IMG_8857

Marjorie Firth

  • Prestige User
  • Reputation: 8041
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 2435
Posted
The eyes are a lot better! Fingers just need slimming down un peu.
forum pic p.o

Peter Smith

  • Esteemed User
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 733
Posted
Easily done!
IMG_1547

Russell Edwards

  • Forum Expert
  • Last active:
  • Posts: 499
Posted
You've obviously taken note of the advice from Robert and Lewis as this is in my opinion, a much improved portrait. The hand is now cupping her face and looks like a hand - result! I know what Robert means about her eyes but then I always recognise your work because of the way you paint eyes, so perhaps this is your style and signature?
Showing page 1 of 3