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Viridian & Bob Kilvert
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Message
Posted
About 18 years ago I attended one of the 'Watercolour Weeks' at Weobley run by Bob Kilvert, who I think died earlier this year. I still have my notes (and my box of Weobley brushes and my watercolour efforts!) but there is something I am struggling to remember. I am convinced Bob showed us some kind of trick using viridian that involved it separating into different colours, kind of like those chromatography experiments we used to do in science at school. But now I can't rememeber what this was!
I haven't done much with painting since then but my curiosity is piqued. I have not been able to make anything clever happen with my own viridian experiments, nor have I discovered anything of note by googling. I wonder if anyone knows what I might be half-remembering?
Edited
by 9918904
Posted
There must be someone else who went on the same course who will remember this. Sadly, I don't know how he would have done that - certainly, if you mix the two siennas (burnt and raw) with viridian, it will produce very different colours, but from what you're saying it sounds as though he was able to split the viridian pigment into its component parts, presumably blue and yellow - and I wouldn't know how you could do that.
You've got me intrigued now....
Posted
Some years ago I attended two of Bob Kilvert's week-end workshops. He ran his art courses from his lovely half-timbered house in the village of Weobly, Herefordshire. I remember he stressed the importance of understanding the properties of watercolour pigments. Which pigments were strong stainers (pthalocyanines), which were translucent (earths). I can't remember which category he placed Viridian in though it produces lovely clear greens so it must have been (transparent).
I don't remember him demonstrating his trick of making two colours from Viridiaan. Chemically Viridian is Chromium Hydroxide and I can only think he must have applied heat to induce a chemical change. He advised against using pigments made from a mix of different pigments such as Payne's Grey (made from Ultramarine, Mars Black, and Yellow Ochre). Better to make your own mix.
I was saddened to learn that he died on Jan 1st 2015. there is a brief review of him in the Ledbury Reporter.
Posted
Wandering through the Forum, and finding this again, it has struck me that we didn't suggest writing to the manufacturers - especially if you remember which brand of paint Mr Kilvert tended to use - most watercolourists of a certain vintage will probably have used Winsor and Newton or (Daler) Rowney: the many other brands now available were much less commonly so years ago.
Given no one else has come forward with any ideas on this question since last month, this would perhaps be the last option available: I've found nothing online that would explain any transformation of viridian, and I suspect it had to do with its mixing properties rather than anything the paint itself was able to do: on its own, viridian (and pthalo green, its nearest equivalent) is a pretty ghastly colour, but they mix well with earth reds and yellows and with some other colours - perhaps it was this that was demonstrated?
Posted
Used Pthalo green the other day - I just don't like it at all; far too strident. Viridian is good in mixes and glazes, but on its own? I still say it's horrid - although nowhere near as horrid as pthalo green.
I think natural greens are best mixed with blue and yellow - in fact the more I think about it, the more sure I am that tube greens have little to recommend them. Although - there are always exceptions: rules are for fools, on the whole......
Posted
I had a wonderful painting holiday back in 2003 with Bob Kilvert. Just starting out with painting water colours, it was
the best thing I ever did. The way to mix the blues with the earths was quite amazing at the time and the way he lifted
the paint off to reveal the white of the paper. I can remember the granulated washes (and the flat washes) he did and the way the paint separated out on
the paper. One demo was with cobalt blue and raw umber on rough paper, for a better effect. And I think the same earth was
used with the viridian for the same effect. I remember the pottery sheep he was given by previous students
when he suggested red be used for shadow on sheep, they had painted the sheep red.
Our practice pieces were laminated ready to take home and I was lucky to have one of his 'paint lifting' demo's a rather fetching Ox Eye Daisy, small
but beautiful, makes a lovely book mark, still have this. One of the students suggested he sign it, Mr Kilvert looked at me, I felt quite embarrassed by the suggestion
and said 'I know who has painted it, that's good enough for me.' It was laminated and is a prised possession. A wonderful holiday, indeed.
Edited
by carol
Posted
Each to his own, obviously ... I'm never going to convince anyone to use a paint by talking about it, and have long since given that up as a bad job. Viridian works for me, in oil especially, where I mix it with the earth yellows or burnt sienna for foliage, with burnt umber for mid-tone darks and with permanent rose (as Arnold suggests - and who would know better?) for really inky darks, and with lemon yellow and other brighter yellows for sunny green leaves and grasses. Now and then, I also like to mix a little with raw sienna and white, and use it in the sky, on or a little above the horizon. It's much easier to control than pthalo green, which can just run away with you and swamp any colour you've mixed it with.
Rob K up above refers to Virdian's charms in watercolour, in comparison with pthalo green: I think he uses it as a wash or glaze colour - either glazing with the green itself, or glazing over it with transparent colours. This can certainly work, and gives a completely different look to a painting in which it's been mixed directly. So many people say they have trouble with greens that I feel a blog post coming on ....
Posted
Hi,
I enjoyed, and learnt a lot from Bob Culvert. The partner with Viridian was Alizarin. It can create a shimmering effect, useful for sea and water. They are complementaries, so will create a slightly iridescent black. On the course I attended one of Bob's exercises was to paint a collection of black pots using different complementaries for each pot. Viridian and Alizarine were one of the complementaries used in that exercise.
Posted
Viridian and alizarin crimson will produce a very near black - and in watercolour they'll melt into each other and fuse in interesting ways. That isn't quite the phenomenon initially described, but I could understand the rationale.
Viridian and permanent rose, as recommended above by Arnold Lowrey (you've gone quiet, Arnold!) would be my preferred combination, whether you mix it or apply it by washing/glazing over the other colour. Alizarin is darker than permanent rose, and might afford darker tints in consequence - probably the reaction on the paper would be more dramatic (ie, when first applied) but in the end result, when the paint has dried, differences might not be so obvious.
Try it and see.
The blackest mix I've ever achieved was in liquid acrylic rather than watercolour, consisting of Napthol Crimson and Hookers Green - but as neither of those colours is lightfast in watercolour (depending on how they're made, maybe) I wouldn't recommend them - and anyway this thread wasn't about blackness per se.