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overlaying washes
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Posted
OK, so I am flogging a dead horse with watercolour , I've decided.
I've just had a go at a demo in a book where you start with a Naples yellow wash. So far so good.
Dry the paper thoroughly, then apply an' Intense blue' overlaying wash. It's phthalo blue, I looked it up.
With the advice to only brush over once in mind, I bash on.
Tramlines from the brush appear so I try to blend them out. Next I get green, still with tramlines, and a few cauliflowers as a' coup de grace'.
More recycling bin fodder, that's both my last efforts.
Some say watercolour is a lifetime of learning, now back to the trusty oils!.
No dead horses were harmed by the way.
Posted
Neilr, make sure your board is on an angle and your glazing wash is thin enough then with as big a brush as poss work top to bottom. If your glazing wash is to thick you will not get the flow of the paint which will give you the tramlines as it will not blend also you will not get that transparency you are after. You are getting green because you are starting to disturbed the first layer of paint and they are mixing. So angle, nice fluid glaze and nice even fluid strokes top to bottom, don't give up good luck.
Posted
It would never occur to me to use Naples Yellow in this way, and I totally fail to see the point of it. If you're going to lay a preliminary wash over the paper, which is quite a common practice, I would suggest Raw Sienna - which (if properly made, and not a watered down Yellow Ochre) is transparent. I'm sure the advice in the book was to apply a very pale wash of Naples Yellow, but even so - I still think it's daft advice: I'd never use Naples Yellow in a wash anyway, anywhere, in any circumstances I can think of - it obliterates everything (which is what makes it useful for picking out certain details, on its own or in combination with other colours). As if watercolour wasn't hard enough already, someone has to go and suggest this.....
What was the book?
Posted
Thanks folks,
Good advice there.
The book was 'Handbook of watercolour landscapes, tips & techniques' with 4 different well respected artists demos in it.
I don't want to 'diss' the artist because the technique worked well for him. I am just not at the level where I could grasp it.
I believe the book is for the intermediate watercolourist.
In the words of Clint Eastwood, ' a man's gotta know his limitations'.
I didn't do so well with the wet in wet flower demos either, so it's me, not the demonstrators.
P.S.Its a bargain book from Hobby Warehouse's art sale, & well worth it IMHO.
Gotta practice, practice, practice to improve eh?
Posted
Hi Syd.
Not sure about naming names, but I guess he put himself out there. It's Richard Bolton. His work is some of the finest I've seen, as in 'wow I've got to have a go at that'.
As I mentioned ,I am no water colorist . More the keen beginner whose collected a lot of instructional books. Consequently I know a lot of the artists you may be referring to, and have followed many instructionals to a pleasing conclusion. Some are a bit formulaic, i.e. buy my special brushes, magic ready mixed paint, mask this & that etc. but hey, they got me up and running & are nice people to chat to at events etc. so thank you to them.
No, to my mind Richard is on another level, which is why I try to emulate his technique. I'm sure he would advocate dogged practice until it works.
I just got in too deep too soon I think.
Posted
Can I also suggest that phthalo blue isn't the easiest pigment to work with if you're new to watercolours - or even if you aren't, I suspect. It is indeed intense, and heavily staining to boot. Such a strident colour is not easy to tame! I don't know what your washes were supposed to represent, but certainly for skies, seas, beaches etc I've found that raw sienna and either ultramarine or cobalt blue work well together. I've only used W&N and Daler Rowney raw sienna - both good but I prefer the former - and I find it has the benefits of being a pleasing, subtle yellow when diluted in a wash, being one of the easiest pigments with which to achieve a perfectly even wash, and it's quite resistant to "going green" when graded into blue. I'm pretty well at the opposite end of the experience spectrum to Syd, but as a relative novice I'd say his advice is spot on. If you're just starting out then I'm absolutely sure that the best way is to find an artist whose paintings and style you like, who produces books or DVDs intended for beginners, and to practice a lot using a fairly limited palette, on paper that is at least of reasonable quality. That way, you get to know your materials and how they behave. Once you have this grounding then you can take things in different directions, but at first keep it simple until you get the hang of it - it will come together, don't give up!
Posted
Just read your reply to Syd, Neil.
Richard Bolton was a major inspiration for someone who used to post here regularly, and who was kind enough to comment on some of my early efforts, called Peter Nelson. On the strength of this, I bought a used copy of "Painting Landscapes and Nature" by Richard Bolton (pretty cheaply, as I remember, from the internet). I might have guessed that it was he to whom you referred, as Naples yellow seems a favourite of his (although mainly used to add detail, effectively as gouache, since it is so opaque). I hadn't realised that he also used it in washes, but I see from my book that he does suggest applying it as a wash to give a warm tone to the paper.
Like you, I do admire a lot of his work, although some may find it tends towards the fussy at times. I must admit, though, that I've only taken broad concepts from the book and haven't tried any of his demonstrations. But then, that isn't something I tend to do - I prefer to apply ideas to my own subjects.
My bottom line is still: if you're newish to watercolour, then forget Naples yellow & phthalo blue. Raw sienna & ultramarine or cobalt blue will be much easier to handle in my experience (albeit limited!)
Posted
Richard Bolton is a fine painter, and I have one of his books: I should have known he was the one who suggested Naples Yellow as I've seen him (figuratively speaking, I regret we've never met, and now he's in New Zealand we're unlikely to) use it with one or two other unlikely colours, including Emerald Green.
I think that Naples is not a colour to be used with any sense of gay abandon by the watercolour student, all the same, especially, as Bill says, in conjunction with a fierce colour like Pthalo/Winsor Blue (and perhaps still less with Prussian). Raw Sienna is much gentler, more transparent, and as Bill also rightly says it's more resistant to turning into a strong green if blue should be washed over it.
I've taken a look through Richard's book in the last few minutes - I suspect you applied the Naples too liberally, even too thickly. RB uses it in very liquid washes, exploiting its creamy nature as a basis for subsequent washes. It's actually a very gentle yellow, but it is opaque: as I suggested above (and ironically it was Richard Bolton's practice, as well as my own, I had in mind when I did) it's excellent for using as an alternative to white gouache in order to pick out detail: it will mix with greens, reds, even other yellows, to indicate grasses, reeds, branches - and THEN you have to use it thickly, and maybe even come back for a second bash at it. But using it for a base wash requires a very, very pale dilution: this in turn must be bone dry before you apply a wash over it, and that wash needs to be finely judged - more finely perhaps than the likes of you and I are likely to be able to: it should be applied quickly, decisively, and once. Any hint of scrubbing or reworking, any hesitation, and you're going to get a loathsome, chalky green that looks like nothing on earth, and certainly nothing like sky.
If the book you have was aimed at the beginner painter, I suspect Richard may have fallen into the common trap of forgetting what it's like to be a beginner, and assumed a lightness of touch I know I don't have in watercolour, which is a medium I came to late. Don't squirt all your watercolour tubes down the sink as a result of this, though: this was a very difficult technique to pull off in the hands of anyone other than a highly experienced painter; what I'm going to do is try the technique on spare bits of paper to see if I can in fact master it, but although I may have a few years on you as a watercolourist I'm far from being confident I shall succeed. Be guided by Syd and Bill - while you don't always want to go for the safe option, you don't want to jump into the most challenging waters either when you've only just begun. Their suggestions are far more likely to be successful - and you (and I) can go on from there. Maybe.....
Pthalo Blue by the way - yes it's very powerful indeed; even so, it has become my major watercolour blue, and I use it quite often in oil and acrylic too. I pull, as it were, the colour from a blob of it on the palette, and take just enough to make a wash, which can be dulled down with cadmium red: you might expect that to make a purple, but it doesn't. So don't be intimidated by it - it's like any other colour: you have to get to know it. Ultramarine, Cobalt, and Coeruleum/Cerulean are much easier to control, and a safer choice, but Pthalo suits me and might suit you.... if you can face the stuff again after your recent experience.
Posted
Hi Robert,
I painfully recounted what I did, and maybe see what went wrong. The Naples wash did go on thinly, and I left the paper to dry thoroughly in strong sunlight outside.
I used a 1" flat brush which in hindsight should perhaps have been a big mop.
I didn't pre-wet the paper as instructed. Things usually work better when I do, although it went on evenly anyway.
My wash technique was the real issue,I should have paid more attention to his preliminary description of how to do it, namely;
slightly angle the board, create a bead of paint at the top & gently overlay brushstrokes as you go down, frequently re-charging the brush, then leave it alone.
finally draw away the welled up paint along the bottom,& happy days.
Obvious to seasoned folks I appreciate , but I'm off to find a eureka moment...
Posted
No point in flogging on with something that's just irritating you - which this is, by now.
There are many ways to use watercolour, and we don't all respond to the methods others find helpful; this is the trouble with how-to books generally: this works for me, so it must work for you - um: No. Not necessarily. When I wrote a little book, I was tempted to tell people how to apply paint and what to use - up to a point, I did; but only up to a point. Beyond that, people need to find their own way - and in this particular case, I still think Naples Yellow is a real swine to use in washes and I wouldn't have suggested a beginner try it.
But - you might come back to the watercolours (have you pushed them to the back of the cupboard, along with the book?). If you do, lay the Naples Yellow to one side and use Raw Sienna and the transparent colours instead, until you're ready to experiment - this is where offcuts of paper come into their own; there are some things you don't want to try doing with a watercolour before you're confident of your technique.
So much depends on how you use the brush - what brush you use - what paper you use - and no one writing a book can know how their advice will be applied: so the other thing that occurs to me is that you find a GOOD art group/instructor, or, failing that, buy a DVD or take a look at YouTube, on which there are many good watercolourists offering their expertise, including our own Alan Owen. Some take to watercolour like a duck to water, and some - struggle. Sounds to me as if you've had just about enough of it for the time being, though - so give it a rest and go back to the oils is probably the most acceptable advice.
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