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Black Watercolour Ground

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Michael Robinson

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I just wondered if anyone has used black watercolour ground. I know the white version has been around a while but I've just come across some black which I thought may be good to draw white flowers on. I've never used the stuff but thought it may be quite dramatic to have a black background to paint on for a change seeing as you can't get dark watercolour paper. Any help gratefully received before I spend on something that's no good.
With Sarah, Phil, Ellen, Rose the dentist, and the granddaughter whose name I forget.

Robert Jones, NAPA

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All I know about that is that Charles Wilby has painted in acrylic - and I think in watercolour - over black Indian ink, which he applies to watercolour paper.
Moi 17

Linda Wilson

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Very interesting Pat - surprising results.

Michael Robinson

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Thank you Pat, I think I may invest a couple of quid and see how good it is, I'll let you know.

Michael Robinson

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Well guys I've sent for some so I can have a go at painting my beautiful white lilies. If it doesn't work it I will put it down to experience!!
With Sarah, Phil, Ellen, Rose the dentist, and the granddaughter whose name I forget.

Robert Jones, NAPA

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Not without adding white gouache, or acrylic, no - it would require a particular technique, which I don't think has much to do with watercolour; I imagine you'd have to be highly skilled and have a very keen sense of colour to avoid mixing complete sludge .... which is all too easy to do on conventional watercolour paper for some of us.

Adele Elgood

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What a shame Margaret. Still sometimes you have to experiment. Hope it wasn't too expensive. Now if it had been chocolate spread, you could have eaten it instead.
With Sarah, Phil, Ellen, Rose the dentist, and the granddaughter whose name I forget.

Robert Jones, NAPA

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I expect thinning it with water might have been advisable, but wouldn't that take the intensity of the black down? It does seem to me to be an answer to a question no one has actually asked - I confess to having a bit of a problem with Daniel Smith paints - a bit like Old Holland, there are just too many of them and some are just geeky and garish. I like a good range of colours, but not an encylopaedia's worth - probably good for the company balance sheet, but over the top. If you want to paint in watercolour on black paper - um; why not buy black paper, or a tube of black acrylic, or a bottle of black ink? I hope you didn't waste too much money on this: next time you feel like splashing out, just buy me a cigar instead: much less frustrating!

Michael Robinson

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Well at least I only spent £8.99 and I got the small tub so I haven't wasted too much. Robert, the truth is you can't get black watercolour paper! I may try using acrylic for this particular painting I want to try, I've got a few tubes hanging around. Syd, is Mars Violet a watercolour paint? I'd be interested to know.

Adele Elgood

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I used to paint flowers in oils and frequently painted dark backgrounds. With oils as with acrylics, it doesn't matter if you touch the edge of the flowers because you can always correct afterwards. With watercolours, you will have to be so careful. But a dark background does make flowers "pop".
With Sarah, Phil, Ellen, Rose the dentist, and the granddaughter whose name I forget.

Robert Jones, NAPA

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Mars Violet is available in watercolour, but in various strengths and under various different names: Turner watercolours (from Japan) sell it under the right name; Daler-Rowney Artists' quality ditto; Old Holland sells it as Caput Mortuum VI; Sennelier as Caput Mortuum; Daniel Smith sell a number of colours with the PR101 classification as either Transparent Red Oxide or Transparent Brown Oxide; Winsor and Newton Artists' watercolour as Caput Mortuum; and just to confuse things nicely, Holbein sell a colour they call Mars Violet consisting of PR101, PV23, and PBr7. Other companies sell what they call Venetian or Indian Red which is actually a form of PR101..... eg, Rembrandt. And there's one calling their PR101 Burnt Sienna - which it isn't.... Jackson's Venetian Red is PR101.... To cut through all this....! Buy your Mars Violet from Daler-Rowney, or your Caput Mortuum from Winsor and Newton, artists' quality ranges in both cases, and you won't go far wrong. By the way, no, they don't sell black watercolour paper - and perhaps you now know why................
With Sarah, Phil, Ellen, Rose the dentist, and the granddaughter whose name I forget.

Robert Jones, NAPA

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PS - Sylvia's right of course - use your black guck as the basis for pastel, oil pastel, even acrylic; at least it won't be a total waste then.
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