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What pigments is that color?
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Message
Posted
When a new person on the third post an antisocial comment about an establishment member by calling them and idiot ,the continues by saying all members on the site are idiots, well it’s time to go as they would only become more anti social. If he is unhappy with my decision then the option is to take it up with the editorial staff and learn to behave appropriately.
Posted
Sandra, I watch these people on YouTube reviewing watercolours and the bang on about pigment numbers, when at the end of the day I just want the colour that's in my head to go on the paper. Ok, I can imagine for the completist in life it's important but fo r me, I think ive not got enough time on the planet for all that faff. I think the top end paint companies that have hundreds of shades have generated this. Just my opinion. Hope ive not upset others who love their numbers, I imagine it is interesting .
Posted
Cobalt Teal is a useful colour: I'd heard of it, didn't buy it - the price is considerable - and finally weakened when I saw a very good painter named Andrew Tischler use it, in oil paint. I wouldn't have recognized it as PG 50, but these pigment numbers can be very important if you're trying to identify just what pigments are used in the colours for which we reach: one reason for that is Pthalo Blue - PB 15, and variants. It's a very versatile blue, and one that is used - because it's cheap - in many "Hue" colours; so half the time, rather than buying Cobalt Blue (Hue) for example, you could probably mix it yourself by just modifying your own Pthalo Blue; if you know the pigment numbers, it gives the game away.
I don't know that I'd find Cobalt Teal very useful in watercolour - in oil, it's opaque and subtle; in watercolour - well, I've not tried it, so can't say; but I doubt it works so well.
There's a broader question here: I've no doubt that Daniel Smith watercolours, and Old Holland oil paints, offer a fabulous range of colours; but we absolutely don't need them all, or even a majority of them. The Old Holland range is a massive, bloated sprawl of different pigments (and sometimes the same pigment, modified). I don't use Daniel Smith watercolours at the moment, but the range there looks similarly massive. Really, these brands are for professional painters, by which in this case I mean painters regularly selling their work - and for those who have been painting for at least a decade or so, and are very familiar with the basic pigments they use. There is, as many will know, a company which offers just 12 colours, across all media - I'll try remembering them! There's Titanium White; Quinacridone violet; Cadmium Red Light; Burnt Sienna; Raw Sienna; Yellow Ochre; Lemon (Hansa) Yellow; Cadmium Yellow Light; Pthalo Green; Pthalo Blue, Cerulean Blue; Ultramarine. The Michael Wilcox School of Colour claims that you can mix just about anything from these pigments, that this is an ideal teaching/learning palette, and that the vast array offered by other manufacturers is unnecessary.
Colours lacking here are, e.g. Cobalt Blue, Cobalt Teal, Ivory Black, Naples Yellow - but you can get very near to all of these by mixing: and without necessarily knowing ANY pigment numbers. I'm not a brilliant colourist, but I do like to vary my palette; and sometimes I use "convenience colours": those ready mixed so I don't have to... to be honest, I don't use many of those; there are so often pigments used in them which aren't lightfast (and again: that's where knowing pigment numbers is helpful - you can spot the cheap and unreliable hidden in the paint).
If - to summarize - you are not sure of your pigments, or just want to keep your painting within affordable limits, I wouldn't use these massive arrays of colour; stick to a basic palette and get to know it. The Michael Wilcox range is a good one, but there are others - e.g. I'm not very keen on Pthalo Green - though it's one of the most durable pigments - and would substitute Viridian; and I'd add a few personal favourites - eg Naples Yellow, Mars Orange... all sorts. I'd smuggle Cobalt Blue, and now Cobalt Teal, in there as well. But then, I know my basic palette - if I were starting out, and someone plonked the Daniel Smith range in front of me, I wouldn't know what on earth to do with it.
It's a pity the original poster chose to descend to rudeness, because the subject is worth pursuing; I didn't see that second post; probably just as well.
Posted
That's really interesting Robert. I think you would agree my sy style of painting is something when I'm dead and gone is not going to be shown in the Lourve! However I do actually understand the need for these pigment numbers especially es when doing non illustrative art like I produce most of the time. I wasn't always a whimsy Painter, and I actually mixed all my own colours then. I still do a lot of the time. But I like how Daniel Smith works on my paper. I do not like 260 choices of colours though. Like I said to sylvia I have 48 . I don't need 48, but I love my own curated Daniel Smith tin. My other two tins are small. Schminke granulating and this new one by Roman Szmal. I am impressed with the Szmal, but won't replace I shouldn't think, or add.
I have painted since a child and never had this amout of paint before. But I truly love the colours I own, and although I'm a pleb about the pigment numbers I do really get it where a professional art would indeed need all the information they could possibly obtain.
I'm sorry if I came across a bit crass about them. For me it's about what I like and what I enjoy really. In my life I had a crossroads in my teens, I had the offer of working as a restoration artist at the Maratime Museum in Greenwich or be a dancer. I chose dance and that became my career. Had I chose the other path.....those numbers would have played a mega role in my life. Having said all this my paintings are very important to me. I don't sell them, I hadly ever show them to anyone apart from on here. I'm in pain of some degree every day, and I can transcend that a bit while doing my art.
So please don't think I'm being condescending to the number people, I'm really not. But I do get englamored when I see a new quin rose!
Edited
by Julie White
Posted
Like Julie, I love the Daniel Smith watercolours - their range includes some single pigment earth colours such as the Burgundy and English Red Ochres which I use a lot and which would be hard to mix. I just want to paint, using colours that are readily available to me without getting distracted by the technicalities of which pigments they include - a bit like the advice which would have you constantly referring to a colour wheel - I’ve never done this, for me it would just take the enjoyment out of painting, far better to choose colours instinctively. I know the DS range is quite expensive, but if I tried to mix, for example, their Undersea Green which consists of a number of different pigments, I’d probably waste more paint trying to mix it than using it ready mixed from the tube!
Edited
by Jenny Harris
Posted
Undersea green by DS, its just divine, hang the expense. People spend more in the pub or on handbags. So agree with you Jenny on this. Plus he seems to have such unique colours, but all that aside the quality is excellent and you know what they sayabout buying cheap...you buy twice.
I think this is one of those wonderful arty arguments where we have to agree to disagree, or all our art would be the same. Lol But im with you Jenny. X
Edited
by Julie White
Posted
Jenny, Julie - you don't need a huge range of colours, because you've chosen those you like and that suit you. I'd hate to think I'd tried to stop you experimenting, but am sure I haven't. I have my basic palette - quite extensive in oil and acrylic, quite conservative in watercolour, but will add new colours if I like the look of them: cobalt teal was one of those, in oil. I'm perfectly sure you both do just fine with your choice of palette, and Julie - I don't care a rap about the Louvre! You might not get there, who knows? But that doesn't mean you won't be remembered by those who enjoy fresh, clean, cheering paintings. If I give advice about palettes, it's this: get to know your basic, go-to colours; add to them if you need to; never be hidebound about colours - keep your mind and eyes open for those that offer something you've not tried before; but don't feel you have to try every new colour on the market.
Oh, and ignore rude people who think they know it all and feel they have the right to disrespect everyone else - but be assured that Paul will clobber them with mighty force if he sees them: that boy is ruthless - and I'm thankful that he is.