Warm and Cool

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I've just watched a YouTube video by a US artist named Dianne Mize - who has the interesting point of view that Ultramarine is a cold blue, while Prussian and Pthalo are warm.  This must be intensely confusing to any beginners - and I wouldn't detain anyone with it save for the fact that Ms Mize is actually a capable painter, and that if you were to take the eccentric version of the colour wheel she employs, you'd soon get into a dreadful mess if you were trying to learn the split primary system at the same time, because she turns it all back to front.. Lessons here: the colour wheel is not an infallible guide to mixing colour; its usefulness, if it really has any, is modified by the way it's laid out; that warm and cool don't really have any exact meanings - we do talk about colour "temperature", though, and "warm" paintings: and most of us have a pretty good idea what we mean when we use those words even though they're largely figurative.  Plus - bright has nothing to do with warmth or coolness, and it's here that Ms Mize can mislead.  Yes, you can get a brilliant green if you mix Pthalo Blue with Lemon Yellow, but warm?  No; just bright.  Ultramarine gives you desaturated, fairly dull greens - but that doesn't mean Ultramarine is a cool colour, except in the sense that compared with, say, scarlet, blue is cool... but that doesn't work as a theory; it isn't a theory - we judge the warmth or coolness of colours in relation to other pigments, but also in relation to the class of pigment itself... i.e. there are warm reds and cool reds, but any red is warm in relation to any blue. Still with me....? Should anyone be a beginner, in any medium - most of us have been at this game for a long time, I realize - go with the majority on this: red warm, blue cool, but a blue carrying red (i.e. Ultramarine) is always going to be warmer than a blue that tends toward yellow (which is what makes those blues very good for mixing greens, or bright, acidic greens, anyway). This is what Michael Wilcox's book 'Blue and Yellow Don't Make Green' covered, among other things.  Dianne Mize isn't alone in holding to this arsy-versy colour wheel, but while it's not doing her painting any harm - I suspect she's more instinctual than scientific in her approach - it's not a good teaching aid, to put it at its most mild. 

Edited
by Robert Jones, NAPA

Gosh, you must have been looking at that video about midnight! I'm interested in your post because I've read before about what seems to me this back to front version of warm/cool blues. (Strangely I haven't come across the same when it comes to reds or yellows).  It certainly didn't make sense to me then and it doesn't now so I'm glad to read your take on it. And it does matter for colour mixing. I hope that this generates discussion amongst the very knowledgeable forum participants whose views I would certainly give credence to. I shall now look up her paintings.
I've never bothered with a colour wheel. When I first began, I learned by experimentation and doing. I can say now that, I can instinctively warm or cool my colours up or down.
I'm a fan of Wilcox's book, Robert (I think, after you recommended it a couple of years ago).  I have created a split primary colour wheel, or two.  But didn't find them much help when actually painting.  What I did find useful, picked up at a Brunel Uni class, was to create a sheet for greens only.  I picked 3 blues (diff 'temperatures') and three yellows (likewise) and then created labelled boxes of greens across the page.  In each box was 3 strokes high percentage of yellow, high of blue, and about middling.  So 27 greens in a grid. Interestingly, a few of the darker ones came out the same.  Then along the bottom, yellow/black and then straight out of the tube greens. So about 33 or so choices.  I found I can now mix my greens according to the blue/yellow palettes I'm using.  Next up Grey and then a Violet page.  Orange...meh, I don't really use it at the moment.
If any newer painters are interested.
I’m with Denise on this, much better to learn by experience and paint instinctively than rely on colour wheels and theories.   My watercolour tutor spent quite a lot of time discussing colour properties and colour wheels, which is useful information to know, but she also encouraged us to make up our own colour charts, mainly for mixing the more difficult colours such as green, grey and also black, and I still occasionally refer back to these. Spending too much time focusing on colour wheels can turn painting into more of a technical exercise and take the enjoyment out of it.  Also, with so many new and exciting colours being produced these days, especially the wide range of Daniel Smith watercolours, there’s no need to do so much colour mixing.  I know the purists are a bit ‘sniffy’ about these, but professional artists are increasingly using them - I believe Shirley Trevena uses them almost exclusively these days.

Edited
by Jenny Harris

I don’t, and never have used a colour wheel! I paint instinctively and can pretty much mix any colour without reference to charts or anything else… But, I’m not against them as I do know some newcomers to painting that find them useful!
On the whole, I'd like to see artists abandon the colour wheel altogether - it's only of help if it shows the complementaries clearly, and it's not much help even then.  If it were, Ms Mize wouldn't have come to her odd conclusions.  Interesting about Wilcox - his approach has many facets, but his use of the split primary system isn't new, just more clearly explained than hitherto.  Does it help with colour mixing ... ?  I don't know that it does; I've been mixing colour long before I heard of Michael Wilcox or the split primary system, because a lot of it does come down to, well, just looking at colour.  But it's an invaluable teaching aid - I'd always say of it and any other method, start here, but do go on - go further.  Wilcox himself would never say "abandon Cobalt Teal", to take a rather delicious example, because you can mix it, or get near to it (I'm not at all sure you can, and it would take an awful lot of work which the simple purchase of a tube of paint would save you).  He does say though that millions of hues, tones and tints can be mixed with just 12 colours including white - and it's important to know that. The MW method - the School of Colour method - is very useful in two landscape specifics: painting the blues of nature - sky blue is difficult to mix, for instance: many of us take it for granted, and probably just as well, because that saves us tearing our hair out - and, especially, greens.  So many students of painting say they find greens a problem: you look at their palette, and invariably it contains Ultramarine - it's really hard to paint a Summer green with Ultramarine; so then they go to Pthalo Green, or less aggressive ones ideally, e.g. Sap Green, Viridian, Emerald, Oxide of Chromium, Cobalt Green.... the sheer expense implied there makes me come over all peculiar....  I knew someone who relied on one of the many Olive greens - her paintings made me feel quite ill.  There's nothing wrong with tubes of green paint, unless you're using them because you can't mix greens (actually, there IS something wrong with Olive green - it has no single definition, it so often contains a trace of black, and I don't know if there are any olives it resembles but it's all wrong for the British landscape). So - most of us aren't going to be led down the verdant garden path; but if we're trying to help beginners, which I've done quite often, I would steer them away from the useless colour wheel; leave it to their own judgement to assess warmth or coolness - most of us know perfectly well if a painting chills or warms - and suggest they invest in more blues than Ultramarine (though that's a great colour), because that will automatically give them cooler blues, and a tangy yellow like Lemon and a - shall we say "richer" instead of "warmer"?  Would that be of help? - a richer, rounder yellow like Cadmium in its several shades - plus, teach 'em about complementaries; and you don't need a wheel for that.  That's basic, easy (however many complications there might be around the edges of the subject) and that's my objective!  Break away from over-complex theories, find a system that works, and eventually it becomes second nature and you no longer have to waste time agonizing about it. 
Useful to know about mixing greens especially I think but not a colour wheel for me either - instinct and adjustment. Too much time spent on technical aspects isn’t what I like, I like to plunge in ( after some thought of course). But everyone is different.
Norette - I bet you do use orange; nearly all of us use either Burnt Sienna or other red-browns, and they are earth-orange; and can be darkened by Ultramarine - other blues make a deep green of them, which has its place.   Your green gallery is very useful: its only drawback would be failing to label it - but so long as you do that, you'll have a colour library for every occasion (I bet that even then, one day you'll encounter a green that catches you out: but if it works 99% of the time, which it should, I wouldn't worry). 
Ah, I do like Burnt Sienna, very much.  Cad Orange less so. There are labels (even pigment numbers), but they're in pencil...must overwrite with a pen before it fades.  But of course you're right, I will one day hit upon an elusive green.
Interesting discussion, but I have to ask whether the warm/cool distinction is itself really useful? I mean, does anyone think to themselves, I need a warm colour now, or I want to provide a cool feel to the entire painting? Is there some notion of coherence or light that underlies such considerations? For myself as an abstract painter I am mainly concerned with colour relationships, especially the push-pull that Hans Hoffman talked about (and Klee before him), using colour to create depth, movement and interest. But I have to admit I've never thought in terms of warm/cool. Convince me to start!
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