Thank you for your report!
We have received your report and it is currently under investigation by a forum moderator.
Why worse? Someone might have an opinion!
Welcome to the forum.
Here you can discuss all things art with like-minded artists, join regular painting challenges, ask questions, buy and sell art materials and much more.
Make sure you sign in or register to join the discussions.
Hang on Studio Wall
This is a Studio member-only feature!
Join our Studio membership and save your favourite Painters Online content, from gallery artwork to step-by-step guides, to your own online mood boards. Create your go-to place for inspiration and learning. Plus, members can also enjoy a range of exciting features including monthly art videos and a digital magazine library.
If you are already a Studio member, simply login to your account.
Not a Studio member? Why not try our free 30-day trial - no commitment, no credit card required
Message
Posted
On several occasions I've produced a painting that I'm half satisfied with, and have tried to do an improved version. Invariably it ends up worse! This has just happened with the one I'm working on at present, is now being redone quite differently. Just wondered whether anyone has had this happen to them, has an opinion as to what is going wrong, Robert I think you'll have an opinion about this.
Posted
On times we're encouraged to put a piece of work away for another day, go back with a fresh eye. I've done this with mixed results, personally I tend to leave well alone these days, also if I want to do another copy of the original it loses its vibrancy. If changes are to be made I'd go gentle with the alterations.
Posted
Sandra, I have an opinion on everything.......
I think they call it arrogance.
However - what you describe isn't unusual; not for me, anyway. It's one thing to put a piece away so that you can come back to it later with a fresh eye; that's not producing another version, that's tidying up, adjusting, correcting errors; and if you're already fairly satisfied with it, charging in with major alterations probably won't help.
If what you're doing is creating another version altogether of the same subject - well, I'm all in favour of that, though wouldn't just try to make a copy of it: I'd change my viewpoint, juggle with the composition, even try a different palette or different medium. I don't know of course, but it sounds to me as if your problem might have a lot to do with composition - if it's off, and you reproduce it faithfully, it'll still be off... simplify as much as you can, concentrate on the basic big shapes before even thinking about the rest.
And the best of luck!
Posted
I recently tried to copy a landscape I did several years ago, it an imaginary scene , half way through I just ripped it up as I couldn’t get the same look etc. I have changed how I work ,developed skills and use different makes of paint etc, all of this had the effect of making it looks so different from the original that I could not continue working on it. The other factor is as it’s imaginary I have no reference to go back to apart from the original painting. I’m in agreement with Robert , the best thing is to do a similar piece with changes that enhance the overall look not a replicate,of something that I could not improve on .
Posted
I feel exactly the same way as most people who describe this: oh, that looks bad, I'll redo it. Then – oh dear: no, that looks much worse, the old one was better. I'll leave it. Instead, I try to identify the mistake, what exactly I don't like, and then correct those mistakes in a "new" picture.
Posted
Sandra, what you mention sounds familiar. I have read and thought about your post a couple of times. I do believe it is a normal part of us exploring and trying to expand on one's abilities. I've done some rubbish stuff and posted it. I can tell you this, I've looked at it and learned a great deal from it. Mistakes are not wrong they are a pathway to improving your work. Don't feel downhearted that things haven't turned out right, embrace it and move on. If it looks worse, do the work to make it look right. If it doesn't work, you will have the experience on further attempts to make a better job of the task.
Posted
Good points from Paul, Tanja, and Denise - particularly the learning element; as it happens, I pulled all my sketchbooks, ancient and modern, out of the cupboards, drawers, and various hidey-holes yesterday, to see where I've improved, if I have, what I've learned over the last 30 years, which is about as far as my remaining sketchbooks go back, what I have still to get right. I see numerous examples of 'having another go at that one', together with my own disparaging or hopeful comments in the margins - a sample being 'better: but not better enough yet'.
I'm certainly better at some things than I was, but that's not the point in the present context; the thing is, it's been a constant learning process, sometimes two steps forward, sometimes three steps back: what it has NOT been is a smooth progress, from amateur night at the scout hut through to fit for an exhibition alongside others. And I look at some of my old paintings - I still have quite a few, as we all know they don't all sell - and think to myself - how the Hell did you do that? On the whole, I'm happier with my paintings than with my sketches and drawings; and that can only be because I usually work them up from sketches, which in themselves may be rough as guts, having worked out the compositional problems. So the sketchbook is a mass of palimpsests - drawings on top of drawings, lots of scribbled comments, blots, furious scratchings out and crossings out: the value of the learning this represents lies in those paintings which have, more or less, worked.
In other words, I 'show my workings', as the examination boards always enjoined us to do, in the sketchbooks. They're my classroom: I'll do several versions of the picture I have in mind before I get the brushes out and approach the watercolour paper or canvas - and I make a Hell of a mess, but learn an awful lot from it. I run on a bit (!), but I hope you glean something from this, particularly in conjunction with Denise's thoughts.
Posted
Thank-you very much indeed, this simple inquiry has morphed into a really interesting discussion, with very helpful insights from you all. Picking up on your first reply Robert, I can't remember what it was with several paintings in the past that I wanted to do another version of, I think though it might have been what was happening within the composition. I like your advice re the large shapes, also perhaps changing the colour palette, but possibly not the medium as I stick pretty much to acrylic. With the latest, it's part of a series, and again it was the colour/texture/marks within the composition that I wasn't happy with. Had an idea how to change it and working on that (thank goodness I work in acrylic!). Certainly a learning process. I really enjoyed your second reply too Robert. What I seem to do is sketch out the composition and what is to happen inside the shapes, then it all changes as the painting progresses and I see other possibilities and head off in that direction. Sometimes the whole thing gets overpainted and changed completely. I think because I am working abstractly rather than realistic painting.
Posted
This reminds of the discussion we had at last Friday's art group.
One of us thought that her current work is not as pleasing as when she first started out. That attending classes and learning methods seemed to have killed off her creativity. I agree with that to some extent. I look at some of my work and think, well the sun can't come from both directions, or, that green is not real, or something else is technically wrong. It's sometimes stopping me from starting a new picture.
It happens in other creative pursuits. I think it was Martin Amis who said that the Uni of East Anglia (famous for its CW courses) kills off too many Creative Writers - spontaneity is everything?
Edited
by Norrette Moore
Posted
I've just come back from art group and our tutor was introducing portrait painting by asking people to do a grid, then draw the face a square at a time, you know what happens. I just picked up my brush and began painting and I was the only one with any freedom in my picture. I know it's not a fair comparison because I know how to paint a portrait but I do think sometimes too much emphasis on grids and careful marking out just kills the joy. If the picture isn't perfect so what, work on it to improve it - that's what artists do!
Posted
Everyone has their own method which works ( or doesn’t 😆) for them. If you’re happy with what you’re doing, then continue…that’s not to say don’t question, look and think about it, i certainly couldn’t do a portrait using a grid ( I’ve tried it, for me it deadens the spontaneity, the “ life” in it). If you lack confidence then a grid might work, or you might be looking for precision - I’m not. I would probably give that club demo a miss because I’ve explored different methods and settled on one. That’s not to say I’m not learning…I am, I do, all the time. It would be interesting to hear how others on the site approach a portrait. Non judgemental, it’s a personal choice how you set about it.
I wonder if it is connected to personality….I know I can be impatient ….that’s probably why I work quite fast…and I can be ( so some say) rather untidy….but I do have a “ method” and it works for me. Well, that was quite a diatribe!
Posted
I use a grid for the shape/outline of the face mostly, perhaps a quick dash for the mouth and eyes. I'm still not confident to do it by "eye-balling" as Hockney would say.
At art class last year, I did one of Tamsin Grieg from a photo, and the tutor thought her face as too long in my picture. But we checked the grid and it was spot on. But that raises the point that it was not at all flattering. I think freehand, it may have been a better likeness, strangely enough.