Should I give up?

NO! Don't give give up. If drawing is your thing, then draw. Things don't have to be in Technicolor. Next time you are in WH Smith's, have a look at the photography magazines- there will be at least one Black and White photography magazine. So if they can do it why can't we? I enjoy drawing, and when my watercolours go wrong, I resort to drawing- and don't forget, you can draw (as opposed to paint) with pastels if you want a bit of colour. But, if you enjoy drawing, and drawing is what you ENJOY, then do it. Come to think of it, I get quite tense when I'm watercolouring- especially near the end, when one wrong stroke can ruin it. I do a lot of five-minute drawings in coffee shops- people, my coffee cup, my croissant, more people. I find that the speed needed is very relaxing- the drawing is very rough, and it doesn't matter if the subject gets up and goes, I just start another. Don't aim for perfection, just get a quick feel of the subject, and move on. Gerry

T.B (5/30/2015)

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I don't want sympathy here, but I've been trying for 5 years now to paint. In the last 2 I've not produced anything that is satisfactory and, to be honest, two years of struggle has got to me. Ive taken lessons, I've tried different mediums and subjects, even different sizes of canvas. Styles, colours, been to gallery's. You name it I've done it. In the past this wouldn't have even bothered me but lately it's really got me down and I've stopped enjoying the process of painting completely, something I've always loved to do. So now here I am, asking for impartial advice from you all. I want to focus on drawing more which I'm good at and enjoy. Drawing just comes naturally to me, when I paint (like tonight) all I think is that I should be drawing this instead, it would look better. I should state I'm not thinking of giving up completely, just the painting part... Am I the only one to feel this way? I feel like an "artist" shouldn't just draw, they should be able to paint and do this and that etc....... (Edit - I'm not looking for encouragement here, or an excuse to stop, I kind of just want honest opinions. Put yourself in my shoes, what would you do?)

I, too, have considered totally giving up painting (and drawing for that matter) as the knock back when it all goes wrong is sometimes too much to bear. I do totally understand how you feel and that is not meant as sympathy or trying some cheesy empathy with you. I paint in watercolour. I have tried other mediums and I don't like them, can't work in them, produce rubbish in them. I have much more success in watercolour, which is why I stick with it. If you are good at one medium and it gives you pleasure working in it, then why bother with another medium? As for 'proper artists' only being the ones who actually use paint - give over. Someone I know very recently showed me work by a young friend of hers and he works in chalk, would you believe. I wouldn't have thought that anyone could produce anything with chalk, but his portraits are utterly amazing and he is now a very successful artist exhibiting and selling in London galleries. He doesn't touch paint as far as I know, but that hasn't held him back or made anyone question his validity as an artist. There is something to be said for knowing what you are good at, sticking to that and working towards improving. If drawing is your forte - then go for it and become the best you can be at it. My opinion is quite cut and dried about it - don't waste time on a medium that you are just not jelling with and stick with the one that gives you success and pleasure.

Ok, I've got it that you're not just looking for encouragement, and I won't give you any just for the sake of it. I've not seen enough of your work on here to really be able to judge - show us a bit more, point us to a website or blog-page. If you like, by all means send me an email with examples of your stuff, then I could say (and I WOULD say) whether I think you should just pack it in and concentrate on drawing or not. I'm disgustingly honest, and I won't try to shield your feelings from abuse. But here are a few points to be going on with. One, I have seen some of your work, when you've (very rarely) shown it: and I think it showed a lot of promise and understanding of the media in which you were working. Two, if you can draw, you CAN paint: I know some doubt this, but the one follows from the other - if you understand tonal contrast, texture, the liveliness of the line that can be achieved with pencil, pen or brush, you can paint. Three, we ALL go through this, I promise you; we finish a painting, think that's not bad, and then look at POL and find a Rupert Cordeux, for instance, and feel like just taking our brushes and jumping on them: but even Rupert (hard though this is to believe) was crap once! And if he wasn't, well, he was an exception. Don't compare yourself with others - you are not them. Paint as you want to paint: you have something of your own to say: and in your case, I'm sure that's true. Four, drawing on its own is a perfectly respectable and sufficient thing to want to do: it's not inferior to painting, and never think it is; by all means concentrate on it for a time - for as long as you want: you're a lot younger than most of us (swine!!) and have plenty of time to go further if you want to. Five) self-doubt is vital to any artist - the worst artists are those who think they're brilliant: they very, very rarely are. We have to criticize ourselves because at the end of the day only we know how far we've fallen short of what we've intended. And incidentally, it we lack the necessary detachment to be able to look at our work and, occasionally, laugh at it derisively, we're just not learning. I regret to say, yet am relieved to say, that I do this very often: just as well I have a lively sense of humour. Six, painting is a series of plateaux - you get to one; then another; then you get stuck .... it can take months, even years: but then you jump up to the next one in direct proportion to how hard you work and how seriously you think about what you're doing; and sometimes, you just need to keep going, not think, not worry, just plough on, because worrying at it may not work while sheer repetition, practice and application does. Read: study; practice; play about with paints and brushes on odd bits of oil painting paper; draw, and then transfer your drawing to a bit of paper and just colour it in, tone it, scrub in a bit of colour - don't feel you have to take it to a further stage, or buy an expensive canvas, but if you feel you really want to and are ready - do it. Play at it, play with it - relax and enjoy yourself: you've nothing to prove - although I know you're wanting to prove something to yourself: so am I, TB: so is everyone who's ever picked up a paint brush. Experiment: try different techniques - eg, have a crack at pre-Impressionist painting, using a grisaille, and then floating coloured glazes on top - something different; something that will interest you just as an experiment, with no particular interest in finishing a painting for sale or exhibition. Try another medium - watercolour, acrylic, pastel: NOT because you've given up on your favoured medium, which I believe is oil in your case, but because it's a change, as good as a rest: I alternate between oil, acrylic, and watercolour. I'm better with acrylic than with other media, but I want to be a better oil painter so I keep returning to that - I don't stress over it, though: I don't let it matter. I can paint plenty of pictures in acrylic if I want to, but I'll always go back to oil - I accept that I'm better in one medium than another, but I really would go spare if I had to be restricted to it. Try as many media as you can, learn as much about them as you can, you learn from one to inform another - integrate them in your mind, it really does help. OK - now look: I was serious - feel free to email me your stuff: I won't lie to you or pretend - if I thought it was likely to be awful, I wouldn't have written this much, but I've seen some of it before and have a good idea of what you should be able to do; I'll tell you if it's tripe - I'm not one of your "very nice, Thomas" merchants. Obviously, you don't have to send me anything at all, but if you do, I'll tell you the truth. And if you don't, I'd still say - keep going, boy: we've all been through this, and the very fact that you've asked suggests that you have the gift of self-criticism - that's an advantage some will never have. And good luck.

Good advice from our colleagues above, too.

Never give up! Keep drawing by all means but don't give up on the painting. It's not easy but when you paint try not to make it to precious. Advice I was given more than thirty years ago was not to try to make a painting every time I painted. Sounds contradictory but it works . Every time you paint treat it as an exercise, if the painting works for you fine ,if not keep it back and do another one. Be self critical but not in a destructive way. Look closely at what you have painted and see if you can find one thing that would improve it. If you can, then do it. Be constructive. All paintings in most mediums can be changed to improve them if needed. Just really think about it and if necessary change one thing at a time. Another piece of good advice I was given way back was to not just look at what you doing but train yourself to really see it. There is a difference. I'm not sure what medium you have been using but I have found in nearly thirty years of teaching adults , that most people starting out pick what is to my mind the most difficult medium of the lot , watercolour. Some people appear to take to it naturally others struggle with their painting until they choose a different medium. Try a different medium. Try a different way of applying paint. You will eventually be able to paint in a reasonable manner. Save all your old work and look at it in a year or twos time. You will probably be surprised at the way you have improved. Don't be disappointed when a painting fails to live up to your expectations try to get yourself into a frame of mind where the finished work is not the really important thing. If you learn just one thing from a failed painting then to my mind that has been a succesfull piece of work.

All good advice above. Sure, give painting a rest, concentrate on drawing for a bit, but don't give up on painting entirely. Drawing underpins painting and is an important skill in its own right. I dont know if it's obvious from my current work, but there was a time when I was a monchrome girl, a linear girl, and I didn't really get painting either. Time and a few workshops and courses and different media sorted that out... So, as one who thinks she knows where you are, here are a few suggestions, for when you feel like you might be ready: - Draw in colour - try marker pens, coloured pencil, watercolour pencil, rollerballs (sold for writing, but they're good for drawing too), and Conté sticks (hard pastels). Try using one bright colour; try two or three bright colours together. - Deliberately use the *wrong* colours. Look at the Fauvism movement for inspiration. - Draw big (when you get the opportunity). Buy a roll of wallpaper liner; it's cheap and you won't care about spoiling it or wasting it. - Paint in monochrome - Get a bottle of black Quink and a jar of water and a big soft round brush. Maybe use a pen to start with. Block in your darkest darks with ink and a brush. Use the water to draw the ink out into the midtones. - Have fun. The last one is the most important one.

No never ever give up! Just go with the flow and see what comes, if you ruin a few pieces of paper, so what, it's only paper! If you let this bother you for too long you will develop a block and that will be harder to get over. For now I say just doodle and faff about, that's when I do most of my learning.

Hi TB. I've been painting for about 4 years now - before retirement I was into photography, with very occasional painting in the form of small watercolour sketches. I don't know if what I have to say will be of any use to you, but our painting history has similarities, so hopefully it might. I'm on a journey which I know will be a very long one, but unlike you I feel as though I'm getting somewhere (or at least at the moment I do!) When I read "I've been trying for 5 years now to paint. In the last 2 I've not produced anything that is satisfactory" the first question that occurred to me was what exactly was unsatisfactory to you? From what you say, it can't be a lack of draughtsmanship. So I'm guessing that it's either the composition (by which I mean not only the layout, but tonal balance, choice of colours etc), or is it your handling of the medium - that the marks you make aren't really the ones you want? For me, a vital thing is to really, really want to paint the subject I'm working on. So far, I've only tried landscape and I've found that if I don't have an emotional bond to the subject then I might as well not bother. I have never rushed into making "finished pictures" - in fact, in those 4 years I have only produced 3 framed, finished articles. I'm sure my way of working is unusual - I do have mounds of layout sketches, colour sketches, and a legion of detail studies where I'm trying to develop the marks, colours and textures that might fit the painting in my mind's eye. Sometimes, this has got me down as I seemed to be spending a lot of time getting nowhere. One thing that really helped was to take leave from the pressure of producing a "proper painting". I have found aperture cards to be a more light-hearted way of reaching a "product" - a small painting that needn't be anywhere near perfect, but can be slotted into a card mount & sent to someone. Also, some of the painting challenges on this site have been fun, e.g. Robert Jones' Viridian and Alizarin Crimson Challenge - trying to create a small painting using just these 2 colours. This helped a lot - at that time painting had become a serious activity for me (ludicrous considering my ability and circumstances!) - and regaining a sense of fun was a big lesson. Finally, I'd suggest: don't give up, but if you're not enjoying it then give it a rest. Do loads of drawing if that's enjoyable. If painting has become a chore that doesn't yield results then don't beat yourself up - take a break. I'm guessing it's far better to put it aside for 6 months, and maybe come back refreshed and keen to start anew, than to struggle on for 6 months when it's not working and has got you down. I know that I can't paint anything at all unless I'm focused and enthusiatic. I also know that producing a finished painting is not fun - it's challenging and damned hard work, but it still needs to be a positive and ultimately enjoyable process or, for me at least, it's just not worth it.

I don't propose to give advice myself after all this good stuff but I am happy to quote Barbara Dorf in the introduction to her book A Guide to Watercolour Painting. “There have been times in the past when unknown folk have preserved the most vital tradition of art and craft. It certainly happened in the Dark Ages. It may be that unknown painters today in art clubs are preserving the very things we value in painting that appear so conspicuously absent from established art. There is no doubt that the official art{official art} of the modern galleries is now no longer in the language of everyone. It is a private language. The first cause of art is communication and this is normality.” John Ruskin "Elements of Drawing" "Only you must understand, first of all, that these powers, which indeed are honourable and desirable, cannot be got without work. It is much easier to learn to draw well, then it is to learn to play well on any musical instrument; but you know that it takes three or four years of practise, giving three or four hours a day, to acquire even ordinary command over the keys of the piano, and you must not think that a masterly command of your pencil, and the knowledge of what may be done with it, can be acquired without painstaking, or in a very short time." John

T.B (5/30/2015)

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I don't want sympathy here, but I've been trying for 5 years now to paint. In the last 2 I've not produced anything that is satisfactory and, to be honest, two years of struggle has got to me. Ive taken lessons, I've tried different mediums and subjects, even different sizes of canvas. Styles, colours, been to gallery's. You name it I've done it. In the past this wouldn't have even bothered me but lately it's really got me down and I've stopped enjoying the process of painting completely, something I've always loved to do. So now here I am, asking for impartial advice from you all. I want to focus on drawing more which I'm good at and enjoy. Drawing just comes naturally to me, when I paint (like tonight) all I think is that I should be drawing this instead, it would look better. I should state I'm not thinking of giving up completely, just the painting part... Am I the only one to feel this way? I feel like an "artist" shouldn't just draw, they should be able to paint and do this and that etc....... (Edit - I'm not looking for encouragement here, or an excuse to stop, I kind of just want honest opinions. Put yourself in my shoes, what would you do?)

In a funny way, perhaps this isn't a question you should ask other people. It may be time to search within yourself to find out what you really want to do and what sort of artist you want to be and a host of different opinions may just serve to confuse you further? I find that the answer to most questions lies within one's self.

Hello Thomas I know what you mean. I learnt to draw for my A level art, in the 1960's but somehow, painting got left out of the course. I promised myself that I would learn to paint when I retired 5 1/2 years ago. It doesn't come naturally. About 9 months ago I felt as you do, that I was getting nowhere. So I resorted to drawing again, but used pen and ink. Then I expanded this to include coloured paper and white and black ink. I then went back to life drawing classes and did pen and wash drawings. I'm now looking for a style that includes colour, but makes the most of my drawing skills - maybe acrylic painting with with pastel over. Which reminds me pastel pencils are a lovely way to paint with your drawing skills. After a break, I met another artist who also had had a break. He said he had all the oil techniques and could show me how, while I could help him finish a painting (6ft x6 ft) that he had not touched for 2 years. After one session of applying glazes with a really big (household) brush, I went home and started painting again. I've now got 7 oil paintings on the go. I find this is good as there is not so much emotional energy wrapped up in any one painting. I don't worry about not liking a painting as it is this critical ability that makes me improve. All it took for me was for someone to engage me in the process and talk about it. Painting is a lonely hobby and sharing with someone can make it a completely different experience. Never give up! Just try a different approach.