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Odd colour mixes that work ...
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Posted
Yes, PR.108 is a single pigment - while the actual colour varies between each of those variants: I did look this up the other day, but have already forgotten the detailed answer (my excuse is that I've spent the day playing with gouache, and trying to draw a late friend from memory: pointless of course, you'd need a photographic memory which I haven't got; and all that rapidly removed my latest bit of research from my mind, or corrupted my mental files.....): but I digress...
Cadmium Red - available as Light or Pale, plain Cad Red, and Cad Red Deep, has to contain PR.108, or can't be called Cadmium Red at all. Hue colours - you probably know this - may be labelled as Cadmium Red (Hue): but won't contain the genuine Cadmium pigment. So far so good. The quantity of the pigment added to the binder is the answer here - apparently. Making paint is an expert science - paint-makers have to understand precise quantities in order to produce consistent colour, and it's not that unusual for a single pigment paint to take different tones - the same is true for example of Cobalt Blue, and Cobalt Blue Deep; Cerulean Blue - which varies a lot between different makers - will still be PB.35, however different it may look. Its 'Hue' varieties are usually pthalo blue in much reduced strength, and nowhere near as subtle; there's a very large difference between what Daler-Rowney call it - George Rowney was the frst to introduce the paint (in 1805, I think) and called it 'coeruleum' - and, say, Rembrandt Cerulean: but - it's the same pigment.
And on it goes. I like to use single-pigment colours, though am not fanatical about it, because you can mix just about anything with them. The Cobalts and Cadmiums (Cerulean is Cobalt Stannate) are among the most stable and lightfast pigments we have. Digressing further - the EU was considering banning cadmium paints at one point, as they had more or less made lead paint impossible to find (for rather better reasons - lead is very toxic; but they went a bit far). SO - paint-makers, and several artists - myself included - submitted evidence on use of the cadmiums to the EU, and it agreed not to ban them; some companies seem to be anticipating bureaucracy taking another bite at this, and are marketing 'cadmium free' paint; this is a stupid bit of marketing, because it contributes to the idea that the way artists use cadmium paint may be, in that wonderfully elastic word, 'toxic'. I wish we'd managed to mount a similarly robust defence of lead whites - they did in the USA and won their case. We had to put up with severe restrictions ..... I could run on longer to explain why lead white paints are nonetheless still available, but suffice to say that they are, if you know where to look.
The metallic-based paints are among the painter's best friends - all of them have come under pressure from those concerned about their toxicity, all need to be used with care and consciousness of studio/home hygiene. We do need to watch out for threats to their continued use.
All this, and you only asked about PR108!
Posted
I suspect the reason that a single pigment, such as PR108 can have different coloured forms is a phenomenon known as polymorphism. Google wasn't much help with PR108, Cadmium Sulphoselenide (even when spelt with a distasteful 'f') but, put simply the individual atoms/molecules can crystallise in different spatial arrangements depending on the crystallisation conditions, and these different forms each have their own colour. Thermodynamics tells us that one of these forms must always be more stable than the others and that all must eventually transition to the most stable form. Not that your paintings are in any great danger of changing colour, this process can take a long, long time - the best example is graphite which is a more stable form of carbon than diamond, but your diamond ring won't turn into a pencil for well over a billion years!
Posted
...and it was very useful knowledge, Robert. Personally, I'm not so worried about the paint content when I select water soluble, as much as the medium/thinner. Hence my use of Cobra with W&N or Daniel Smith for the unavailable colours, soapy water is my main brush cleaner. Well done on the EU debate.
@Tony also, I am wondering now if the pigment is 'cooked' at all to make the three different tones.
Posted
The medium with the water solubles - a bit of a misnomer, they're miscible rather that water soluble, but it's not worth getting pedantic about! It just means that water can be mixed with modified oils, but the oils aren't soluble in water - eg, can't be re-worked once dry. The medium is, in the case of W & N's Artisan range, and presumably in Cobra's, a modified Linseed oil. I don't know how the oil is modified - that's supposed to be a trade secret, and I probably wouldn't understand it anyway. Linseed oil is the best medium, at least for the first layers; Walnut oil is fine too, poppy oil - takes an age to dry. Thinners, though - yes, I do understand that people are very wary of Turpentine, and probably should be just as wary of the various low-odour alternatives, including Zest-it: none is entirely hazard free. I also understand that water miscible paint is a lot easier to clean up afterwards - but you don't have to use any thinners at all: that's too involved and long a subject to go into in what is just a reply on a thread, but plenty of artists use just a minimum of oil to loosen up the paint, mash it with a palette knife to produce a more fluid consistency, don't use Liquin or other alkyd mediums, and never use solvents. I always have a bottle of Turps tucked away, but very rarely use it. If anybody wants a fuller explanation of this, I'll be happy to write a gurt long piece in another thread - but for now, this is just a "just sayin' " comment.
Posted
Norette - not wanting to go off at too much of a tangent on technical issues - I am no expert, especially regarding the chemistry of paint pigments but....... Energetically (= thermodynamically) yes, some of theses chemical forms (polymorphs) can transition into another when heated, there being a defined 'transition temperature'. Others can't, they simply melt before any change. I don't know the details for any paint pigment, and suspect the different forms are made by differing crystallisation conditions rather than heating. Paradoxically 'cooked' pigments would be thermodynamically unstable when cooled back below the transition temperature, but that does not necessarily mean there is a mechanism by which the change back can happen. For the graphite to diamond change the key temperature is about 2,250 deg C, but as I am sure you have found out your diamond(s) haven't changed to graphite yet despite, even in the present heatwave, the temperature being over 2000 deg below that particular transition temperature.
Posted
And a very efficient response from W&N too! Very interesting article.
Thank you for contacting Winsor & Newton. PR108 is the Ci identification and denotes a chemical type but the shade can vary depending on reaction conditions and the way it proceeds so as far as PR108 is concerned it can present as any shade between Cadmium Red Light through to Cadmium Red Deep. this article may help you https://www.winsornewton.com/uk/articles/colours/spotlight-on-cadmium-red/
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