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Getting someone to paint for you and seling it.
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Message
Posted
Hello Everyone,
I am previously a filmmaker and so I see my art visually, yet I can not draw to save my life. Although I do have some interesting ideas for paintings, however, I would not be able to give the concept idea any justice if I painted them. On the other hand if I was able to get someone else with a much more skilled hand to paint my ideas for me, surely I would be able to sell that, right?
The issue here is when/if I put the artwork on to an art selling website do I write that I am the author of the painting (as it is my concept)? Or do I have to put the 'real' artist (the person with the painting skills). I would hate for the TATE modern to phone me asking if I could draw something for them and it turns out that at best I can only produce what looks to be a child's three legged drawing of an elephant.
But on a serious note I would not like to feel that I am deceiving any possible buyers thinking I was the one painting their piece. Although I have read online that even some of the most famous artists had assistants.
What do you all think? How should I go about this?
Posted
From a legal and marketing perspective it sounds like real 'fun'. If you are serious about this the first thing to consider is some form of agreement (in written form ) with the artist of your choice regarding: royalties, ownership of copyright, marketing responsibilities etc etc. You could market the product under two names as often happens in publishing but I think you would always need to identify the roles of both parties to satisfy a very fickle public. Best of luck - if you really are serious.
Posted
Er..... well, let's deal with the practical and legal issue first. If - and this is not an offer, mind! - I were to paint a picture from your idea, the copyright would be mine, not yours. But if we succeeded in selling such an image, it would be in my interests to split the proceeds with you so that you could produce more ideas, and we could sell more. But you could only enforce that if there were a written agreement.
You say that artists in the past had assistants, and yes many of them did: but these assistants were likely to be apprentices in a master's studio - so not really analogous to what you're proposing: they would do the donkey work on a painting, the master would add the finishing touches .... there was a fair amount of flexibility in how this system was applied, depending largely on how busy the studio was. Anyway, I'm probably taking that point a bit too literally, I'm sure you knew that.
There may be artists who would work with you to translate your ideas into pictures, but for most of us I think, the idea is as important as its execution - and we'd want to be involved in that from start to finish.
You say you can't draw for toffee, or words to the same effect. Perhaps you can't! I've certainly known people who more than disprove the claim that "anyone can draw/paint"; but how hard have you tried? While I don't think it's true that anyone can draw, can you write? Can you write a page of text that people can read? If so, you are, in effect, drawing - making shapes with your pen and tying them together. If you had to draw a sketch-map showing a delivery driver how to get to your house, could you? If you had to draw, say, a precision sketch of a key accurate enough to produce a pressing that would work - could you do that? If you could do the second of these, you can certainly draw; if you could produce the other one, you can probably draw. It's practice, that's all.
I wouldn't give up on the drawing yet - doodle away, copy illustrations in kids' comics, see if you're being unfair on yourself. But if you really can't make a drawing in which you can tell if the subject is supposed to be a tea-towel or the Taj Mahal, I can only wish you luck in finding an artist to give form to your ideas for you: finding such an artist doesn't mean you've necessarily found a market for your cooperative efforts, don't forget - and it's that which will determine whether your partnership survives or dies.
Posted
Thank you for your responses,
In terms of the legal aspect I would believe if I at least photoshop objects and shapes where I can still communicate what I am trying to achieve surley I would hold the intellectual rights. Writing up some sort of rights agreement is a very good idea which I had not realised. I could try to do the paintings myself but I do not know anything about blending or other techniques which would take months to achieve. Whereas if I was able to create partnerships with various artists things would get going alot quicker. I am happy to credit the artist who actually painted the art. My goal in the end is to open a website to selling paintings of my ideas.
Posted
This is a bit of a sticky one : intellectual rights, copyright law - a bit of a nightmare in these circumstances which is why an agreement is essential. Ordinarily the artist holds the copyright on his work but where he copies the work of another then he is breaching an existing copyright.
In this case we are merely talking about an idea or concept (as I understand it) and to demonstrate in law that such design or concept existed, and if it was that it is covered by copyright law, will be questionable in the extreme. In other words, whatever the circumstances, get an agreement in place so both parties know exactly what they are committing themselves to.
Posted
To be honest, if I were to produce the artwork from your ideas I'd be looking to keep all the money made from selling the pictures and pay you a small retainer for coming up with ideas.
Let's use a musical analogy - who gets all the credit for a Taylor Swift song? She never even mentions her songwriters by name in a live show; she gets the money from selling the songs and they get paid to remain out of sight.
Edited
by alang23
Posted
You often get celebrities who aren't skilled at writing and may never have read a book in their life. But they want to earn money by producing an autobiography. Their agent sees if a publisher is interested, signs a contract and chooses a ghost writer. The writer interviews the celeb or listens to tapes and then writes the autobiography.
Your position is similar in way, but you don't have all the details of your life to work on. All you've got is a few ideas which you would give to a painter who then has to create a picture. It sounds fraught with problems. You say your ideas are interesting, but how do you know they are? I imagine painters would be reluctant to enter into such an arrangement.
Why not reply and briefly describe the brief you would give to an artist for one of your ideas.
Edited
by keora
Posted
Putting all the legalities aside, as Sylvia has said we artists are creative and imaginative people in our own right. You may struggle to find any decent artist worth his salt to undertake this project, no doubt there will be someone out there mind you, there always is...
I am confused, if you are a filmmaker, why not put your creative ideas into making short films?, at least you are starting with the necessary technical abilities whereas you no nothing about art and its complex processes and by the way, you won't pick those up in a few months, it takes a lifetime.
Assuming that you do find an artist to work with you, what next?, it's a minefield out there, tens of thousands of artist's all competing to sell their work, believe me it ain't easy.
Sorry but like Syd, I am also OUT!.
Posted
Hi All,
I have read all your responses and taken your points of view into consideration. Here would be an example of what I would like to do;
I have been on Photoshop and I have copied and pasted elements of what I want in the picture below.
I would then say to the painter "Would you be able to paint this, however, would it be possible for you to make the spaceman look more realistic as if there actually was a spaceman floating rather than the cartoon drawing". I myself could probably do the backdrop and with some practice the colorful bottom but I definitely could not paint the realistic spaceman. In the film industry you hire different people for their specialised skills in their own area whether it be in lighting, sound or makeup. Surely this venture is no different to a film being made. I would pay the artist for their work and then list it on various art selling websites and social media noting it was painted by Joe Blogs and concept by myself for a slight profit. What is the difference between me selling the work and someone selling a second hand painting.
I haven't turned this idea in to a film because I think a painting is the perfect platform for the idea - let the viewer create the story themselves.
It great to hear from you all as this kind of thing is not heard of and thus why I wanted to ask the art community what they thought before I committed to anything.
I would then say to the painter "Would you be able to paint this, however, would it be possible for you to make the spaceman look more realistic as if there actually was a spaceman floating rather than the cartoon drawing". I myself could probably do the backdrop and with some practice the colorful bottom but I definitely could not paint the realistic spaceman. In the film industry you hire different people for their specialised skills in their own area whether it be in lighting, sound or makeup. Surely this venture is no different to a film being made. I would pay the artist for their work and then list it on various art selling websites and social media noting it was painted by Joe Blogs and concept by myself for a slight profit. What is the difference between me selling the work and someone selling a second hand painting.
I haven't turned this idea in to a film because I think a painting is the perfect platform for the idea - let the viewer create the story themselves.
It great to hear from you all as this kind of thing is not heard of and thus why I wanted to ask the art community what they thought before I committed to anything.
Posted
Isn't your idea taken from Stanley Kubrick's 2001 - A Space Odyssey? An astronaut ventures outside the space ship to repair a fault, and Hal, the renegade ship's computer disconnects his lifeline and he drifts into space.
The pciture you've done with the astronaut superimposed looks fine, why do you want someone to improve it?
Posted
<div>Okay so disappointingly no amazing new concept to at least peek my interest, there must be thousands of space themed paintings out there so your competition will be enormous, not being negative I hope but I don't see any reason to progress further with this idea, however, if you are hell bent on giving it a go all I can say is good luck as you will certainly need it.</div>
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