Thank you for your report!
We have received your report and it is currently under investigation by a forum moderator.
Ink
Welcome to the forum.
Here you can discuss all things art with like-minded artists, join regular painting challenges, ask questions, buy and sell art materials and much more.
Make sure you sign in or register to join the discussions.
Hang on Studio Wall
This is a Studio member-only feature!
Join our Studio membership and save your favourite Painters Online content, from gallery artwork to step-by-step guides, to your own online mood boards. Create your go-to place for inspiration and learning. Plus, members can also enjoy a range of exciting features including monthly art videos and a digital magazine library.
If you are already a Studio member, simply login to your account.
Not a Studio member? Why not try our free 30-day trial - no commitment, no credit card required
Showing page 1 of 2
- 1
- 2
Message
Posted
Is there an ink which is suitable for use in a fountain pen (Rotring Artpen) that is waterproof when dry (for line and wash) but won't completely dry up if left in the pen?
I know that Indian ink can't be used, as the shellac gums up the pen feed. I believe that Winsor and Newton Drawing Inks are also not suitable, for the same reason. As I understand it, Rotring own brand ink cartridges are not waterproof, nor are any of the 'normal' writing inks that I've tried (Parker, Waterman, Diamine, WH Smith or Mont Blanc).
I'll happily stand corrected on any of the above.
For line and wash, I use various fibre tip pens, but being disposable and plastic, they not environmentally friendly. I've seen that Faber Castell make a range of fibre tip and brush pens containing Indian ink, but they too are throw away items (and would probably run out at a critical moment!!).
I know you're all going to say 'use a dip pen', but that would remind me of handwriting practice in primary school C1950s!!! (Flicking ink soaked balls of blotting paper across the classroom with a ruler. Wasn't me Sir!!)
I have seen a demo here on POL in which the artist uses a matchstick taped to a piece of bamboo.
https://www.painters-online.co.uk/tips-techniques/pen-wash/art-videos/pen-and-wash-in-the-style-of-wesson-with-martin-rolfe/
(If you watch, beware of apparent silence followed by VERY LOUD sound at 10:34)
Posted
I've done my best to research this in the past, and have never yet found any permanent, waterproof ink that won't ruin a fountain-pen. The plastic pens, filled with pigment ink, may be your best bet - though they have innumerable problems: as you say, they dry out, usually when you least want them to; the nib is not very sympathetic - rigid, hard, and press on it too much and the ink stops flowing; and environmentally yes - not great news, because I'm not aware of any that can be re-filled.
I have a Rotring artpen, thanks to Sylvia Evans - it's great fun to work with in sketchbooks, but I don't think the ink would stand up too well to UV light, and anyway it isn't waterproof. The Rapidograph - I THOUGHT that used a waterproof ink (from Rotring) but whether it does or doesn't, it has the same sort of rigid nib - good for architectural drawings, and some people do like it for other work, but it doesn't have the feel of a fountain pen.
So - you correctly forecast where this was going! I'm afraid I have to come back to the dip-pen - I also remember using them at school, around 60 years ago; of course, I was far too well-behaved to send ink bombs around the classroom, and I trust you were properly punished, with maximum severity, if you did. Shocked, I am. But that didn't put me off them - they're still fun to use.
There are others, though - Bamboo pens; quills; bits of twig; cocktail sticks, I've even used those interdens sticks for clearing tartar behind your teeth: does tend to mix a touch of toothpaste with you ink, but I don't know that matters.
A fountain-pen that could take Indian ink/drawing ink would be a wonderful thing, but I really don't think there is one which will meet your specifications. I should be happy to be proved wrong, and would then buy one for myself.
Posted
All the above is correct over the years I have just about every pen on the market as you say Robert the technical pens are the only refillable water proof ink pen, rotring is the only one worth buying they do a variety of models plus some cartridge, problem is you have to use them daily especially the fine ones. Another problem you have to hold the pen upright I have a set of diamond tiped as the normal steel tip can wear out and scratch the paper allowing the ink to bleed. I can give you pictures and names if you would like more info:...
Posted
By the way - why they make throw-away pens with pigment/Indian ink is exactly because it'd be impossible to refill them without the ink clogging up the nib or internal components: which does rather suggest that if it could be done - it hasn't been done yet. How about using Chinese ink, with a wolf-hair brush (or alternative)? And I wonder if you could thin black watercolour and use that in a fountain pen: most unlikely to give you the dense blacks, of course - you'd need so much pigment that it would almost certainly clog the nib, the only advantage being that at least you could wash it out again.
Do not try this with your Mont Blanc, Koweco, or best Parker - but I'd have a go with a Platignum pen, if I still had one.
Posted
Bari - good points, and thanks for the confirmation. Yes - I knew an architect and watched him using a Rapidograph: it was fascinating to see, and as you say, he had to keep the pen upright. Of course, as a working architect, he did use the pen every day (all superseded by blasted computers now, sucking character out of the thing). .
Do by all means post your links, they're always useful for people interested in the highways and byways of the art world.
Posted
Thank you gents. Sadly, your observations come as no great surprise. I've tried to find a good solution (no pun intended) without success, but it's always worth asking those with greater knowledge and experience.
The prefilled pens work, and dry quickly, but lack 'feel'. I prefer fountain pens to ball points for writing for the same reason. I also have a Rotring Isograph technical pen, but it's like using a needle!
I fancy trying the match stick or bamboo pen idea.
As for bombing the class with ink balls, as I said.... "It wasn't me Sir!!" ; ) (How do put smileys on here?)
Posted
I know you've mentioned 'dip pens' and they remind you of school c1950. However, have you tried, Speedball drawing set, used with acrylic ink?
Or, uniPin liner pens, I use these for inking up my larger calligraphy letters and drawings and can watercolour without any trouble.
Other than that an extra fine-line Sharpie. All good alternatives, and don't cost a fortune.
Posted
I haven't tried Speedball. I shall look. Thank you CJ.
I wanted to be able to use the Artpen when out and about so as to avoid the need for bottled ink, adding washes using my small field box.
Another suggestion was to draw basic structure in pencil, add washes over that, then use the pen (with regular ink) on top.
More than one way to skin a cat!
Posted
Hello again CJ. I've been looking at the Speedball website. There appear to be many varieties of pen, including Calligraphy, Mapping, Cartooning, Poster, as well as Sketching, Drawing and Artist, plus a 'general purpose' set. Can you narrow the choice for me, please?
https://www.speedballart.com/our-product-lines/speedball-calligraphy-illustration/speedball-pen-nibs/speedball-pen-sets/
In the meantime, I've ordered a bamboo pen and some Indian ink.
Posted
Hi Colin
I order my pens from Amazon. The ones I use, for calligraphy are, Calligraphy, this set comes with 6 nibs and a holder. Two of the nibs are fine, and could be used for drawing, the other set, I prefer, again for lettering, set C, these are a broader set of nibs, with holder. I use these with ink and also acrylik inks and metalic ink. The acrylic metalic ink is a bit of a poch, but well worth the effort for a desired effect.
I don't think there's a lot of difference between the sketching and drawing sets. I've been using the finer ones I have in the the first set, and others I have purchased from other brands.
When it comes to art materials, I'm a bit of a kleptomaniac, and I do like to share my thoughts on various things I try :)
Posted
Colin, I have the opposite dilemma!
For years I have been looking for a drawing pen that is NOT waterproof. Many years ago I used to enjoy sketching with a cheap ink pen (from a cheap stationers), which I'd then smudge with a little water here and there. The pens would release a lot of ink when smudged, which I liked.
I have yet to find one that does the same thing! It had a blue/black tinge when smudged (black ink)
Showing page 1 of 2
- 1
- 2