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Newbie with colour bleed problem.
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Message
Posted
Hi all, I'm 55, live in Cornwall and until about 4 years ago was a senior manager at a defence related company. Unfortunately I managed to get a brain nasty that has left me in an electric wheelchair and very dependant on an amazing family and great NHS to keep me going. Anyway, I was slowly going down the road of 'nowhere' until a dear friend gave me some roofing slate and offered to cut it into manageable pieces, about 25mm by 30mm. I had never painted before but he said 'give it a go' With some clever jiggery-pockery I can hold the small slate slabs and to my amazement I've found I can recreate pretty well (so I'm told) images from around Cornwall. The painting is fine and I've got a new purpose - bringing smiles to people that see them. Great so far. Friends, family etc. They all want one but knowing Acrylic can be 'softish' and doesn't like water, I varnished some (acrylic varnish), after waiting a week or two for the paint to dry. My white wave crests went green! and colours bled into each other - always showing a green tinge (no green used!) Ok I thought, try acrylic lacquer - but it won't fully harden, but doesn't cause bleed. So invested in Pebeo Crystal clear- sets hard and clear, but bleeds green again!
Can anyone help me to get a protected finish on the acrylic on slate, that doesn't magic up a green bleed? It's great to have purpose again and if anyone wants to see, I can post up images of the ones so far. Many thanks for listening.
Posted
It could be something in the slate thats causing the colour change. Water does not affect acrylics at all after they have dried and this is due to being acrylic plastic resin. which is not really soft but quite hard.When dry the acrylic colours can be painted over with colours diluted in water as a glazing which is a technique in acrylics painting. Rather than slate could you not paint on something else like art mountboard offcuts ( free from a friendly picture framer) and very easily cut into small sizes. its not necessary to varnish acrylics as they are tough cookies but it all depends on the finish you want. I am no petrologist but slate is not really a stone and stones take acrylic no bother and some people do this type of painting with great skill......If you still want to use the slates you could try giving them two coats of acryylic matt medium to seal the surface and when dry paint your art on them . hope this helps......Syd
Edited
by Syd Edward
Posted
Yes - I believe Syd hit the nail on the head with his priming/sizing suggestion. I'm not familiar with painting on slate - conservative type: I don't range beyond canvas, board, and paper! - but I think the answer here would be to apply a couple of layers of acrylic medium to the surface, and paint on that. These are quite small paintings at 25 by 30mm, and so you could apply a further coat of acrylic medium (gloss, perhaps, or a satin finish either by buying a ready-made product or by mixing your gloss and matt mediums together) over the finished painting. Or there are plenty of varnishes available. But try the priming suggestion - the clear medium would still give you the colour of the slate as the ground - although if that wasn't so important, you could apply acrylic gesso in white or black.
In passing, I have no idea what might have been causing the unwanted green touches .... but the key to resolving the problem would seem to be to isolate the paint from the support: it would be a good idea therefore also to apply the medium to the sides of the slate, even though they'll be very thin.
Posted
PS - North Light/Sylvia reminds us that slate is impervious to water, which indeed and of course it is: so you can't help wondering if it's been treated in some way, or if there's verdigris or a form of mould involved. I think what I might do is scrub the slate with methylated spirits or Iso alcohol: then let it dry; and when it was thoroughly dry, go ahead and apply the acrylic medium. Daler Rowney make several good ones for their Cryla range (and I wish every post I write didn't remind me of something else I've run out of and need to buy...!).
Posted
http://www.ehow.co.uk/way_5723835_can-paint-slate-tiles_.html
Brief but to the point; recommends washing with soap and water - another link I found explains that while slate repels water, it's still porous: which is why I think I'd still attack it with meths, just in case it's absorbed something it shouldn't.
Posted
Hi everyone, Thanks so much for replies. I've had to wait for a friend to photograph some samples to put to your knowledge, which hopefully I can work out how to post to the forum!
The colours I'm using are either from Daler Rowney 'graduate' acrylics or Reeves acrylic - only because I was given some advice that they were 'good' for a beginner. The slate is definitely not new, and so I'll try getting it cleaned with meths before another go. The picture shows 4 pieces on the upper left that have had no colour bleed at all and the acrylic lacquer is slowly getting harder (after 3 weeks!) The lower two have tiny bleed and have had crystal clear on for a week and are still tacky! The ones on the upper and lower right have all had massive colour bleed - even the white waves are now greeny / yellow and the crystal clear is only slowly hardening. The only thing, as a novice, is I tend to build up thick layers of texture for things like the wave crests and I don't thin the paint at all as it's easier for me to keep control of, maybe that's an issue? Also I read gesso could be a good base, should I be using that maybe? The holes for the keyrings were drilled by my mate without cooling and before painting. I'll try the tips you kindly gave, but it's a total mystery to me. Thanks for listening
Posted
<div>Hi again,
By the way, forgot to say thanks for the suggestions re the acrylic medium etc and the only reason I've tried to protect the surface is that 8 family members and some friends want the images as keyrings and I didn't think they'd last long against keys. Again thanks to all.</div>
Posted
You could print the images off for key-rings - I believe you can buy tags, or fobs, into which an image on paper or card can be slipped. I don't know how long the paint would resist constant friction from the keys, even if protected - but then, even enamel key rings show signs of chipping and decay in time: mine certainly have. Nothing that's actually put to use lasts forever..
The images aren't helpful in demonstrating the cause of the problem, but at least we can see what you're doing. Building up texture wouldn't be an issue - presumably you're building it up with paint, or with texture paste, rather than any so far unmentioned substance? The two paint brands you mention are respectable and sound - I don't think it's your paint that's the problem: you COULD try a bulkier paint, eg Daler Rowney's Cryla: it's an excellent paint, but diluting it to a workable consistency at this size would be taxing of anybody's skills...
You say you're going to try washing the slate, and using a bit of meths on it: see how you get on with that and then report back.... By the way, people do paint with oils on slate: it takes longer to dry than acrylic, as in much longer, but once dried it's even tougher than acrylic.
Posted
Hi Robert, Thanks again for the interest. I could print images, but there's so little movement left now, to find something I think I can do to leave a smile is priceless. I am only using the acrylics to build up the texture - no thinners, water, just me, paint and a seriously modified set of brushes! I'll try some of the cryla - thanks for that. The reason for the keyrings is that the people conerend want to 'carry a bit of you around" (some peoples idea of 'keeping' I suppose) I don't mind if they get worn out - it won't matter to me! Sorry the pictures didn't help. The process for all is the same, Bob (a dear friend) cuts them on a tile saw, drills them and because he cleaved the slate sheet ( which by the way had been outside for about 20 years), he sands them smooth for me on a diamond 'thing'. Then I put a blue of white background on and just keep adding colours until it seems about right. Then let it dry for about a week and then spray with clear lacquer - or pour on the Pebeo crystal clear. Could it be the way I just add more paint in new layers before the previous layer is dry? I'm still completely puzzled why some have no colour leach and some don't - all dipped or sprayed at the same time. Also I wonder if the blue paint is somehow turning out a green 'leach' with the top coat? Sorry it's been such a puzzle but I guess it will outdo me before resolution and I really am grateful for you and other expert opinions - nice to know newbies can get such invaluable suggestions. I'll let you know how the meths wash gets on.
Posted
Hy Syd, by the way, my name is Andy. Thanks for insight. I understand your tip re the acrylic medium, I'll get some ordered. When you say don't paint on half hardened paint, do you mean my way of having, say, still very fresh blue in the sky area and immediately painting my white clouds in could be causing an issue, or just making sure I understand the acrylic medium use? Thanks for the Pebeo comment - never occurred heat might do it somehow. Haven't seen System 3 products, well 'us be in rural North Cornwall' and so I'll look it up. Will get back to you all with any progress in resolution.
Posted
Actually, something Syd said might have some relevance. I assume it's possible to get 'a dud' even with a reputable brand. My green paint (W&N brand) is actually like a very soft melted runny margarine - even after kneading the tube for a long time. All the others are like 'a stiff butter' and a joy to work with. Am I onto something, or just looking for a false Herring in my journey of discovery?
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