Thank you for your report!
We have received your report and it is currently under investigation by a forum moderator.
Charles Bargue Drawing course
Welcome to the forum.
Here you can discuss all things art with like-minded artists, join regular painting challenges, ask questions, buy and sell art materials and much more.
Make sure you sign in or register to join the discussions.
Hang on Studio Wall
This is a Studio member-only feature!
Join our Studio membership and save your favourite Painters Online content, from gallery artwork to step-by-step guides, to your own online mood boards. Create your go-to place for inspiration and learning. Plus, members can also enjoy a range of exciting features including monthly art videos and a digital magazine library.
If you are already a Studio member, simply login to your account.
Not a Studio member? Why not try our free 30-day trial - no commitment, no credit card required
Message
Posted
Moving on to plate two I have done the first couple of examples but following the incorrect procedure I think. At the time these were released there were many teachers teaching classical drawing and no text came with the images because the teachers knew how to teach such things. At this point not everyone understands what is being illustrated.
I drew the top line out, but I think I should only have two images instead of 4. These are clearly pairs and the second image looks to be constructed by drawing the first and then refining into curves. A big theme of Bargue is that we are much more accurate when using straight lines so curves are simplified into straight lines, I have yet to hear how we return to curves though, but in any case drawing the first image then drawing the second is not what they had in mind and when I have drawn the second I have gone straight in with curves which again is not what they had in mind.
Also as can be seen there is no schema on the second image, we are allowed to draw on the original if we require and this is encouraged on the large casts though I think here it's unnecessary because the straight line forms will inform how to draw the curves. The straight lines and construction lines can then be removed, I wonder if the resulting image can remain clean with the amount of erasing to be done and if the issue would be better or worse if I was working in charcoal rather than pencil. Still for the remaining 6 I will try to do 6 images rather than 6 pairs... that will have to wait I have a long day of work today.
I drew the top line out, but I think I should only have two images instead of 4. These are clearly pairs and the second image looks to be constructed by drawing the first and then refining into curves. A big theme of Bargue is that we are much more accurate when using straight lines so curves are simplified into straight lines, I have yet to hear how we return to curves though, but in any case drawing the first image then drawing the second is not what they had in mind and when I have drawn the second I have gone straight in with curves which again is not what they had in mind.
Also as can be seen there is no schema on the second image, we are allowed to draw on the original if we require and this is encouraged on the large casts though I think here it's unnecessary because the straight line forms will inform how to draw the curves. The straight lines and construction lines can then be removed, I wonder if the resulting image can remain clean with the amount of erasing to be done and if the issue would be better or worse if I was working in charcoal rather than pencil. Still for the remaining 6 I will try to do 6 images rather than 6 pairs... that will have to wait I have a long day of work today. 
Posted
+1 for the use of a skewer - I picked up that tip in Betty Edwards' book "Drawing on the right side of the brain" and there's a bunch of BBQ skewers in with my art stuff.
Whatever you're using, it needs to be straight - nothing worse than a bent skewer for making your photo-realistic sketch of Megan Markel look like Quasimodo.
Posted
Yes, knitting needles seem to be ideal (much better than the pencil) though maybe I should have gone for wood rather than aluminium (since it springs back and the aluminium can get bent out of shape)
These should be used to measure distances either horizontal or vertical but never at an angle. They can be used to check angles by moving between the two images but distance measurements can be a fair distance out with only a slight angle change so its recommended to go horizontal or vertical... I can instantly see the value of this technique for drawing from life too, though the cotton technique seems useful it required two hands whereas the knitting needle can measure with one hand and the second hand can mark the findings.
Posted
I think that's where we all began, Syd, in school. I think as children we either like it or don't. Like yourself I love it. It's been an on off affair. One thing I did when I wanted to learn how to use the medium of watercolour was to get rid of the tracing paper, I think an artist will never gain his/her own style while using it. These books I have found invaluable, even now, after all these years, there are things to learn.
Posted
So that's my effort at plate 2, though I am not feeling proud of myself, maybe its because I am burning the candle at both ends or maybe because I am lazy I don't feel I did a brilliant job... though it is all practice and if it was easy I guess I wouldn't be learning.
My tracing paper arrived and so I compared a couple of the first ones which I thought looked pretty good but when you overlay a tracing of the original image it shows you how far you wen't wrong. The key I think and what to take from this is that the schema must be accurate... for instance the first mouth on this page the three horizontal lines touching top, middle and bottom of the lower lip are clearly closer together on the original than my copy, this being the case my drawing was always going to be distorted.
Also I am thinking that a drawback of pencil is that it dents the paper, charcoal I think would do this less so and is probably more suitable for the constant rubbing out and redrawing necessary to do a competent and accurate job.
I am feeling eager to get onto one of the bigger cast plates since I think the images are really cool and a bit more meaningful than the studies (my patience is always greater when I feel I am doing something meaningful) these take weeks rather than hours but I understand the processes required more fully because there are lectures about how to negotiate them. The plotting of a notional space box inside which an envelope is blocked out, pushed into and all lines extended to meet the notional space box in two points which are measured and ensure accurate reproduction. The copies I have of these plates are glossy though, and pencil doesn't want to stick to them so again maybe this is telling me I should be getting some charcoal.
Posted
Plate 3 has the profiles of what appear to be Roman emperors (it is fun to find out who some of these images are, Agrippa and the author Dante are favourites who appear later in fuller form)
The idea here is similar to the last plate, the image is drawn in straight lines and then refined to curves, this time a little shadow is thrown in for good measure. I am still not entirely sure of the technique, I believe that once the straight line stage is done all the measuring is put to bed and and from then on is done just by eye. I went landscape on this plate which made it trickier to set up on my makeshift easel (canvas board and some bulldog clips) and I realise that it is not optimal to have the images anywhere other than side by side as they should be, proper comparison cannot be made unless they are side by side and also measurements can go dodgy when viewed from a different up/down angle.
Posted
Ears next, the first couple of large ones I enjoyed, the smaller ones less so. I am not sure what this one was supposed to teach but I am guessing it was to use extended lines in order to judge the angles of small lines it is better to see where they point and draw a longer line which is then erased back to the required length.
Posted
Pate 5 is the first of the plaster casts, this one being a foot. Given that this one took me a fairly short time I probably wasn't as thorough as I was supposed to be. I have ordered charcoal pencils (which I have never tried in my life) though really the best tool for the job is the Nitram charcoal sticks, which seem to be about £10 for a pack of 5 and given I would want a variety of hardness grades would cost about £40, the charcoal pencils were much cheaper £3.99 for 24 pencils so I will test them first before committing myself. Anyway I did this one with 2B pencil trying to build up the shadow tone in layers and keep it even without destroying the tooth of the paper by pressing too hard.
It starts off as a rough envelope...
Then the rough shadow shapes are indicated and the details refined a little further
And then the shadow shapes are filled and lines refined to curves.
Then the rough shadow shapes are indicated and the details refined a little further
And then the shadow shapes are filled and lines refined to curves.
Starting to get more complicated as Bargue tries to train my eye to see more variety in tonal values. Having to make a decision where shadows stop and half tones begin etc.
The next few plates get a bit more complicated still and are going to take longer to do if I want to do a good job.
Posted
Plate 7 and plate 8 are from casts of Ancient Greek statues... the Borghese Gladiator (bought by Napoleon and exhibited in France around that time) and the Foot of the Medici Venus by Cleomenes.
I had 24 charcoal pencils come through the post yesterday which I am a little nervous of trying but will probably use for the next plate. The package said "fragile" on it (though the packaging said shatterproof) yet several of the pencils were shattered inside and couldn't be sharpened. I used a blade and took them back so a good length of charcoal was protruding and then used sandpaper to get a sharp point so they are ready to go but I do fear smudging and getting charcoal dust everywhere... still no pain no gain I guess.
I had 24 charcoal pencils come through the post yesterday which I am a little nervous of trying but will probably use for the next plate. The package said "fragile" on it (though the packaging said shatterproof) yet several of the pencils were shattered inside and couldn't be sharpened. I used a blade and took them back so a good length of charcoal was protruding and then used sandpaper to get a sharp point so they are ready to go but I do fear smudging and getting charcoal dust everywhere... still no pain no gain I guess.
Posted
Plate 9 and 10, in charcoal.
I would be happy with these as drawings but the foot on the left is not perfectly accurate... somehow the shadow around the heel didn't come out quick thick enough and therefore the wrinkles in the sole ended up not matching the original precisely.
Plate 10 for some reason I couldn't get as dark darks, the charcoal pencil seeming to destroy the tooth of the paper making it too smooth to grip more (despite my attempting to layer it slowly on) and also amendments could not be changed satisfactorily as the charcoal doesn't rub out as easily as pencil.
These charcoal pencils may be OK but I think I need sticks with grades, I mean the amount of tonal range is pretty good for a pencil of a single grade but to get the blackest black and the lightest grays with a single implement is perhaps not possible.
I would be happy with these as drawings but the foot on the left is not perfectly accurate... somehow the shadow around the heel didn't come out quick thick enough and therefore the wrinkles in the sole ended up not matching the original precisely.
Plate 10 for some reason I couldn't get as dark darks, the charcoal pencil seeming to destroy the tooth of the paper making it too smooth to grip more (despite my attempting to layer it slowly on) and also amendments could not be changed satisfactorily as the charcoal doesn't rub out as easily as pencil.
These charcoal pencils may be OK but I think I need sticks with grades, I mean the amount of tonal range is pretty good for a pencil of a single grade but to get the blackest black and the lightest grays with a single implement is perhaps not possible.