Paynes grey...finding it's voice

It's only a Name, Ian: they don't actually set fire to it (actually, in a way they do, or anyway did: the different hues of the pigment are arrived at by heating the  pigment at different degrees).  Now look: if I say you don't have to use Burnt Umber - I don't think you'd really be missing much, to be honest - will you at least have a crack at Burnt Sienna?  You're missing out on so much if you don't.... think of it as an orange (which basically it is): and a transparent one at that, which you can use in glazes. Maybe I can't convince you - I'd obviously have to put you in detention if you were a student of mine, but then I've hardly ever taken students (and if I did, I wouldn't call them "my students"!  Oh that's so pretentious!).  Sorry about that departure into rant mode....  But you've got a pigment there which you can mix to produce any number of colours, deep green, greys, blacks, AND can glaze with - I don't understand why you wouldn't want to take advantage of it: it's a standard, for goodness' sake: I'd be lost without it.... But there we are; I can shake my grizzled locks and mull upon the foolishness of youth, but if you won't, you won't.   Serious note - perhaps a C flat: over years here, I've seen the late and lovely Syd Edward threatening excommunication for anyone using Viridian or Pthalo Green, numerous assaults on Payne's Grey, Neutral Tint, Hooker's Green, Ivory Black, and now Ian on anything burnt ..... well, I meantersay... None of those colours, even my lovely Burnt Sienna, are entirely desirable or absolutely necessary, but it really is what you do with them that matters.  Eg, Pthalo, Viridian, Hooker's, are greens you'd never use on their own - NHS hospitals used to, often combined with black: I have horrific memories of the London Hospital Whitechapel, for instance; and not a few crematoria - but the point is that you hardly ever would use them on their own.  Burnt Umber can be a complete heart-sink of a colour; and it does, or can, sink into canvas, leaving you with a quagmire.   All of this is true, but I swear till I'm a lovely shade of puce - it really IS what you do with them: what you mix them with.  And of all of them, Burnt Sienna ....  I really think I couldn't go on painting without it (now stop that cheering: it's not kind...).  It gives you warmth - it's so important. Anway, talking of things being burned, I've got my dinner on and must attend to it.  

Well put Ian. 

Don't encourage him!

I occasionally use Payne's Grey in Watercolours. I don't have it in acrylic or oil. I like the colour on its own but also mixing with Indigo or Crimson. I have every colour mentioned and have used every colour mentioned. Lets look at it more closely. I think it's about looking at what is available to you, then experimenting with it. Note and especially for the beginner, not every colour comes from a tube. It is essential from the beginner stage to familiarise oneself with a daily routine of mixing a palette, if in oils or acrylics. Obviously it is a different situation when working with watercolour. Watercolour requires a more spontaneous approach and delicate handling. It is important to look at how experienced people, professionals and past masters have used colour and mixing techniques but it's also important to find your own way in this area.

I'm not a water colour painter but I do use acrylic Payne's grey. Three months ago I'd never heard of it but some friends at art group were pulling my leg so I bought a tube......I couldn't do without it now and haven't touched black paint since. They were all water colour painters. In acrylic it's warmer than black and mixes well, it's been a revelation. I had to buy two more tubes this morning, I'd run out again!