Photographs or paintings?

I have a friend or two who have produced some fine digital art, but have not passed them off as genuine paintings. I personally would never manipulate photos on photoshop and try to pass them off as real paintings. I do, however, use photos and a reference. I think of them as my sketchbook, but having said that I have recently resorted to going back to do plein air sketching for use for in future paintings. I don't see anything wrong with using templates or tracing paper, it all depends on what one wants to achieve. Does it mean an artist is less talented for doing this? I Although I personally frown upon photoshopping photos and passing them off for real paintings there are, however, no rules and regulations about art.

I just think it is lovely when people wish to paint. For myself, the painting process is much more enjoyable than the drawing one and if someone is struggling with a drawing, they might give up. Back to the digital art, Denis seems to use his computer and mouse, preferring that to an IPad. About 6 months ago I was looking into the possibility of trying digital art and even went so far as to buy a book and DVD targeting the technically-challenged artists out there. I even found that too difficult!!

paintingˈpeɪntɪŋ/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8YfjMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==" height="14" type="image" width="14" style="font-size: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif;">noun<ol class="lr_dct_sf_sens" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 20px; border: 0px;"><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;">the action or skill of using paint, either in a picture or as decoration."pastels require a different approach to painting"</li><ul style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;">a painted picture.plural noun: paintings"an oil painting"<table class="vk_tbl vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody><tr><td class="lr_dct_nyms_ttl" style="font-style: italic; vertical-align: top; white-space: nowrap; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px;">synonyms:</td><td style="padding: 0px;">picture, illustration, portrayal, depiction, delineation, representation, likeness, image,sketch, cartoon, artwork; More</td></tr></tbody></table> </li></ul></ol><div>paintpeɪnt/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8YfjMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==" height="14" type="image" width="14" style="font-size: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif;">noun<ol class="lr_dct_sf_sens" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 20px; border: 0px;"><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;">1.a coloured substance which is spread over a surface and dries to leave a thin decorative or protective coating."a tin of paint"<table class="vk_tbl vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody><tr><td class="lr_dct_nyms_ttl" style="font-style: italic; vertical-align: top; white-space: nowrap; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px;">synonyms:</td><td style="padding: 0px;">colouring, colourant, tint, dye, stain, pigment, wash, colour; varnish</td></tr></tbody></table><ul style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li class="xpdxpnd" data-mh="-1" aria-hidden="true" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; overflow: hidden; transition: max-height 0.3s; max-height: 0px;"></li><li class="xpdxpnd" data-mh="-1" aria-hidden="true" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; overflow: hidden; transition: max-height 0.3s; max-height: 0px;"></li><li class="xpdxpnd" data-mh="-1" aria-hidden="true" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; overflow: hidden; transition: max-height 0.3s; max-height: 0px;"></li></ul></li><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;">2.NORTH AMERICANa piebald horse."a paint mare"</li></ol><div> </div><div>substanceˈsʌbst(ə)ns/<input src="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAA4AAAAOCAQAAAC1QeVaAAAAi0lEQVQokWNgQAYyQFzGsIJBnwED8DNcBpK+DM8YfjMUokqxMRxg+A9m8TJsBLLSEFKMDCuBAv/hCncxfGWQhUn2gaVAktkMXkBSHmh0OwNU8D9csoHhO4MikN7BcAGb5H+GYiDdCTQYq2QubkkkY/E6CLtXdiJ7BTMQMnAHXxFm6IICvhwY8AYQLgCw2U9d90B8BAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg==" height="14" type="image" width="14" style="font-size: small; font-family: arial, sans-serif;">noun<ol class="lr_dct_sf_sens" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 20px; border: 0px;"><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;">1.a particular kind of matter with uniform properties."a steel tube coated with a waxy substance"<table class="vk_tbl vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody><tr><td class="lr_dct_nyms_ttl" style="font-style: italic; vertical-align: top; white-space: nowrap; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px;">synonyms:</td><td style="padding: 0px;">material, matter, stuff, medium, fabric"an organic substance"</td></tr></tbody></table><ul style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li class="xpdxpnd" data-mh="-1" aria-hidden="true" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; overflow: hidden; transition: max-height 0.3s; max-height: 0px;"></li></ul></li><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;">2.the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence."proteins compose much of the actual substance of the body"<table class="vk_tbl vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody><tr><td class="lr_dct_nyms_ttl" style="font-style: italic; vertical-align: top; white-space: nowrap; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px;">synonyms:</td><td style="padding: 0px;">solidity, body, corporeality, reality, actuality, materiality, concreteness, tangibility;More</td></tr></tbody></table></li></ol> </div><div> Although when at work my radar "paints" a target, this is not painting. Roberts work might be utterly fabulous, in fact Leonardo, Turner, van Gogh might all have turned out super stuff with a light pen and an ipad...but it is NOT painting. I want to learn and appreciate the skill of sploshing "substance" onto support. I could go to sea in a trawler and fish for cod...but actually I want to send time with my 5 weight fly rod and catch trout on a stream.. Both fishing. Quite different. </div><div> </div><ol class="lr_dct_sf_sens" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 20px; border: 0px;"><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;"></li></ol>verb<ol class="lr_dct_sf_sens" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 20px; border: 0px;"><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;">1.cover the surface of (something) with paint."the ceiling was painted dark grey"<table class="vk_tbl vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody><tr><td class="lr_dct_nyms_ttl" style="font-style: italic; vertical-align: top; white-space: nowrap; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px;">synonyms:</td><td style="padding: 0px;">colour, apply paint to, decorate, tint, dye, stain, distemper, whitewash, emulsion,gloss, spray, spray-paint, airbrush, roller, coat, cover More</td></tr></tbody></table><ul style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px;"><li class="xpdxpnd" data-mh="-1" aria-hidden="true" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; overflow: hidden; transition: max-height 0.3s; max-height: 0px;"></li><li class="xpdxpnd" data-mh="-1" aria-hidden="true" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; overflow: hidden; transition: max-height 0.3s; max-height: 0px;"></li><li class="xpdxpnd" data-mh="-1" aria-hidden="true" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none; overflow: hidden; transition: max-height 0.3s; max-height: 0px;"></li></ul></li><li style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; list-style: none;">2.depict (someone or something) or produce (a picture) with paint."I painted a woman sitting next to a table lamp"<table class="vk_tbl vk_gy" style="color: rgb(135, 135, 135) !important; border-collapse: collapse;"><tbody><tr><td class="lr_dct_nyms_ttl" style="font-style: italic; vertical-align: top; white-space: nowrap; padding: 0px 3px 0px 0px;">synonyms:</td><td style="padding: 0px;">portray, picture, paint a picture of, depict, delineate, draw, sketch, represent, catch (a likeness of); More</td></tr></tbody></table></li></ol> </div>

And that David is why it is called "digital art" - a modern term. You wish to learn art as art used to be taught. I am learning flower and botanical art using watercolours and for that I have enrolled in an online tuition course because no amount of advice, although very gratefully received is not going to teach me how to do it. As long as you produce something which isn't an original painting, it is termed as art nowadays. And I realise photography is now put under the same umbrella as art, although not for the purposes of this website.

Sorry, should read is going to teach me.

I'm with you Syd - obviously it can't exclude pen work etc and by the same reasoning it can't exclude other forms of picture making so, like you, I think I'll get of this merry go round.

Thank goodness we are all in agreement, for once. I have a very difficult task before me trying to learn watercolour techniques, properly, I might add , so I should be concentrating on that. We will all agree to disagree and leave it at that! All forum friends still, I hope!

Recently being on a cruise liner in the Irish Sea in a force10 [whole gail 70mph & 10 metre swell] concentrates the mind somewhat... It's art because I say so...it's not art because I say so...where does it really get you? If you make either form of art with passion & conviction then good for you...if people like it enough to buy it, even better.