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realism in art
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Message
Posted
Thank you Glen,you have just suggested to my fertile brain,a subject for earnest
discussion concerning styles in painting in oils.All your help is on the other thread.
I prefer the impressionistic style of oil painting and when I look at a realstic painting I am amazed at the resemblance to the subject and the skill involved
However I say to myself" why not use a camera if you want realism"? I recall a lady
returning a photograph which she thought was an oil painting at an art society do
that accepted photos as well as oil paintings. it tells you something doesn't it?
Discuss? .Syd :-)
Posted
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by Samir
Posted
I like the cut of your jib, young Seamas (I have no idea how old you are of course; take the 'young' as a measure of approbation).
You're entirely right about the old masters not being hyper-realists, because as you suggest, they didn't need to be - all they needed to do ('all'!) was convince. And yes, no photographic process I'm aware of can as yet convey the marks of the brush, the physical reality of paint; so when we see a photographic reproduction of a painting, we're seeing just a version of it, and a flat one at that (there was a recent book I caught brief sight of - by Hockney? - in which a superb job had been done with the printing; but even there, the reality of the object itself would eclipse even the best representation of it).
You touch on an area of controversy with the limited palette theory - my memory is foggy these days, but a painter who had an article in one of the magazines probably some ten or more years ago deliberately defied this convention, and apparently always did: her palette was huge by comparison with the basics so often recommended. Would it have been Val Whiffen..? Perhaps someone will remember. I did not see in her painting - which was brilliant - the clash of colours and lack of harmony which it is alleged will flow from an extensive palette; I think that restricting colour choice is probably a good way to teach (i.e. it's much easier for the teacher) but I should hate to be bound to a red, yellow and blue - and as I rarely use a tube black (never if I can avoid it), which is necessary for the strict application of the Cyan, Magenta, Yellow printing process and creeps into painting instruction, I should find painting that way deeply unrewarding. I have a few esoteric colours in my paint box which I don't use much, true: some of them are just convenience mixes, and I can mix the colour myself. But others - there's a yellow I'm rather fond of (quite an old colour in fact, not one of the most modern ones) made by Rowney: I can't mix that, it's unique: and no theory is going to drive it from my paint collection (which reminds me, I'm running out of it...).
Posted
Do - I agree with all that: I don't actually believe in throwing dozens of colours at a painting (although it can be done) but I would get SO bored with using the same palette all the time: and why on earth would you? There's so much choice out there that it's just Masochism to restrict yourself to the same b. colours all the time. They do different things, for Heaven's sake - if a painting calls for Prussian Blue, there's no way you can substitute for that, even with Pthalo mixed with black or whatever: I mean - WHY? The paint exists, it serves its purpose- use it. I hardly ever use Indigo - but I did a while ago, because I'd have spent an age mixing the deep blue-black that I wanted.
I know this isn't entirely on point, but I suspect you'll get what I mean.
Posted
Seamas, I had a look at your website and I must say: it is amazing! Also saw the trailer for the "Vincent-film": stunning. It must have been a wonderful experience to take part in this fantastic film-project.
http://www.painters-online.co.uk/artist/MiaKetels
Posted
Colour mixing gets contentious - not that I have any problem with a bit of contention; snag is that people come to it with varying degrees of knowledge - and some can get quickly blinded by (more usually irritated by) science. Blue and Yellow Don't Make Green was a very useful work for teachers - because it got away from the old theory of the colour wheel, which I've never known to help a student yet - certainly it offered absolutely no help to me. It was also useful in that it caused people to question colour theory, which probably most of us had taken for granted. I used the Willcox method for a while, and yes, he's right, you can mix a huge array of colours from his basic 6, and even more from the range of 12. Yet - I don't use the method now: I did base a little instructional e-book on it, but was conscious at the time that I was preaching a method I no longer used myself, because while it'll take you so far (and farther, more quickly, than others) there comes that point at which you don't want to be contained/constrained by it.
In passing, I should be interested to know the title of the early 20th century book you (Seamus) mentioned.
A thread on colour mixing (you could start one in almost any of the topic headings here) would be good for those of us who are interested, even if that might not be many of us (though who knows?); and if you have yet to encounter the Painting Good Practice and MITRA websites (Seamus again) I think you'd find them of great interest given your enthusiasms. The first of these is linked to the Rublev colourmakers in the USA; and associated with Natural Pigments - the second (MITRA) is a US university academic and practical resource mostly for oil painters though I think it will cover more in time. UK websites also exist of course, but I find the most interesting work with paint is going on over the Atlantic right now. If you have any trouble finding these sites, I'll put links on here - but as a professional lazy sod (first class) I haven't gone to the trouble of inserting them.
I am much enthused by your presence here, because I too have a slightly geeky interest in these things but, knowing how easy it is to cause eyes to glaze over, have only selectively indulged myself on POL. I should be delighted to discuss colour-mixing at whatever intellectual level I'm able to reach - it may not be as high as Seamus's, but at least I've got the edge on him in terms of experience; so I might be able to disguise any ignorance...... slyly and cunningly.
Posted
Two quick points I forgot: one, yes any colour can be mixed - even my Rowney Golden Yellow: but it would take me too long to mix it, hold me up, and the colour would be unlikely to be entirely consistent. So I do use convenience mixes, as well as mixing colours.
And the other - sort of said this already, but actually I do restrict my palette on any given painting: if I stray over 6 it'll be unusual. But I wanted to emphasize Seamus's 'not the same six' point - on the odd occasions I've been asked for my basic palette, I've had some difficulty answering honestly, because it varies - particularly in acrylic, the choice available is so colossal now that it does feel cruel to oneself to deny those extra tubes. But not to throw them all at any one painting - unless of course a particular effect is required.
One of our veteran members, Phil Kendall, has strong views on this - he paints in acrylic and likes to use fresh paint for each passage of his picture, straight from the tube with minimal if any mixing; not sure where and how Phil is at the moment, but his colour is something to behold.