Nine shades of Grey?

There are several methods of doing this, particularly in oil and acrylic, coming down basically to a monochrome underpainting and subsequent glazing - it's my normal technique, with variations: so the first layers will be reddish brown, often, heightened with white (lead white in oil, when I can get it) with colour either glazed or scumbled on top and more usually a combination of both. I might start with the intention of glazing the whole thing, but it rarely ends up that way. The idea, or ideal, is that the painting should glow with this method, but the drawbacks are a lack of immediacy, it doesn't work with the alla prima technique - or at least not in the classical sense - and that you're going to need many more than just one glaze very often, which can be time-consuming in oil as you wait for layers to dry. Also in oil, you have to bear the start lean, finish fat rule in mind - keep the oil to a minimum in the first layers, and probably use a resinous medium like genuine Turps - preferably on a rigid surface rather than canvas, given the paint structure is going to be more complex than the more contemporary methods of applying paint. Without channelling Mats Winter, who cautioned against the use of Zinc White, particularly in underpainting, be careful with the white you use in oil - certainly not Zinc, but be aware that some versions of 'underpainting white', or 'Flake White Hue', are mixes of Titanium and Zinc - taking these as real replacements for lead white (ie, assuming they'll do everything that the original underpainting whites will do) is likely to lead one astray - they may resemble the creamy nature of Flake White, but they 're not necessarily stable quick-dryers..... deep waters..... probe paint-makers, and you may detect a certain nervousness on this subject, which some are still investigating (Michael Harding for one, who put a cautionary note about Zinc White on his website last time I looked). It was David Hockney who pointed out that acrylics are particularly suited to the glazing method over a grisaille - and it is the traditional way of painting a portrait in oil, giving a more subtle surface, if a less animated one, perhaps. Many painters use a mix of methods, without consciously realizing they're employing the grisaille approach. http://www.isleofwightlandscapes.net http://www.wightpaint.blogspot.co.uk

Can endorse Robert's comments about Zinc White and Lead White replacements and 'under painting whites'. I have struggled to find stable quick-drying whites for use in indirect oil painting and have come to the conclusion that the only answer is to accept that this method requires time, often a long time for a large or complex composition. Having said that, I find it a much more satisfying process than direct or 'alla prima' painting and it is not necessarily less expressive because it takes longer. When done well and the early thin layers are allowed to dry before over painting with transparent glazes the effects of depth and 'glow' can be very satisfying. Using a glazing medium such as Liquin assists the drying time and aids the glazing process. A very traditional method but the results are often worth the effort.

Just coming back quickly, and for a reason - I was contemplating doing an underpainting in acrylic and glazing over with oil; too long to go into the reasons, but cleaning up and making a noise washing brushes late at night sort of covers it! But before I took a leap, I had a look: I think I really knew the answer, but I wanted to check that there has been no development in recent years to reassure us over the technical side. In short - if you're going to overpaint acrylic with oil, a) use a rigid surface, not canvas; b) make sure the acrylic is matte, not gloss; c) don't apply the acrylic paint in impasto applications. The reason is the different rates of drying, and movement of oil paint over the years. We've got plenty of experience of oil over acrylic priming by now, and I think it's at least as safe as rabbit-skin glue and whiting, but there's no consensus on painting over thick layers of acrylic, and the advice from manufacturers and most artists is - don't. It's likely that Alkyd white would be safe under oil - but you're likely to run into the Titanium White plus Zinc White issue; if it IS an issue: again - we can't yet be sure that this is a bad idea; the argument was that the Titanium neutralized or absorbed any problem which Zinc White alone might cause, but - who knows? As yet, we don't. Give it another hundred years, and we might: but it could be there's a snag there.... In short, the only white I'd be confident about using with a glazing technique would be a lead chromate - which is hard to find, and expensive if you can. But I'm more cautious about painting technique than I am about health hazards, so I'd be very interested in anything Martin Kinnear of the Norfolk Painting School (who doesn't use lead whites, certainly not in his teaching) might have to say on this subject. http://www.isleofwightlandscapes.net http://www.wightpaint.blogspot.co.uk

https://www.jacksonsart.com/blog/2016/08/30/grisaille-painting-dirk-schmitt/ Just found this on the Jackson's website. It's a bit of a plug for Schminke Mussini oils, but has some features of interest; in particular, the painter featured uses a tube grey for his underpainting, adding a Flake White Hue on top (which is probably a mix of Titanium White and Zinc White, as these white Hues nearly always are). You could certainly paint a grisaille using this method. http://www.isleofwightlandscapes.net http://www.wightpaint.blogspot.co.uk

I do have to cackle at some of these blogs now and then - Jackson's put this video on their website promoting Schminke oils; one of the colours used is Schminke Flake White Hue. Then you go to Jackson's actual website and their range of Schminke Mussini paints, and guess what? They don't stock the Flake White Hue.... I've great respect for Jackson's, it's a great company, but come on, kids, for goodness' sake... I bet if I look again they'll have added it. But it warn't there yesterday... http://www.isleofwightlandscapes.net http://www.wightpaint.blogspot.co.uk

Thanks @robertjones for your precious tips. Grisaille method is closely related to monochrome & used for shades of grey. I love to paint with oil on a cotton canvas.

Useful. Pat, thanks. It does raise many questions in my mind, as does the whole thread. As I think you know - or anyone would who had followed my meanderings - I use, when I can lay my hands on it (protected perhaps by latex gloves, but I admit I often don't) lead whites. I have indeed scoured the planet to get hold of them and employed various devious means. This applies to oil of course, they're not available in acrylic and it seems to me that acrylic paint makers have generally overcome the problem that oil painters face: that Titanium White, though a wonderful paint in so many ways, is capable of killing oil colours stone dead because it's too white, too overpowering, too opaque, too cold. Many attempts have been made to produce a warm white that isn't going to overpower colour; there are various Flake White Hues, for example - but none of them has really come anywhere near to recreating that ropey, long stroke you can get from Cremnitz White, which is pure lead chromate (usually). Winsor and Newton make a Flake White Hue, which I like (but it does contain Zinc, with which there may be problems); Gamblin produce another - but again, I THINK it must include Zinc: I haven't tried it yet (there are suggestions that Zinc White can produce metallic soaps, which come to the surface over time and promote delamination - just lifting from the canvas - and other problems). Now - I know that POL is no more a repository of technical wisdom than Wet Canvas, and that many people just watch discussions like this and turn rapidly off; and I know that the sites that do delve into these issues can be quite incredibly nerdy; I also know that paint manufacturers themselves have no consensus of opinion, and some worry about all this much more than others. So I'm not anticipating many replies beyond the just paint and stop worrying school. But, to come to the point: does anyone out there know of a good white paint that is warm, won't drown subtle colours, isn't Zinc-based, and yet isn't lead-based either? If so - I'd love to hear from you, because while I'm probably too old to need to worry about the long-term effects of lead white, others aren't - and they have little hope of achieving the same effects as the painters they most admire if they're forced to use white paints derived from Titanium. http://www.isleofwightlandscapes.net http://www.wightpaint.blogspot.co.uk

Saw that, Pat, thanks - I got a bit peeved though, to be honest. I know I'm expecting far too much of a paint-maker, and of course W & N are talking to inexperienced painters here primarily, but those who've been at it a bit longer want to know what's IN these blessed paints that they're talking about; want to see some acknowledgement that there's a problem with Zinc White, and the fact is that Zinc White is in every one of those paints - the Flake White Hue contains it, Titanium often contains it (but doesn't have to: I think one of the Jackson's Titanium Whites is Zinc-free) - and personally I have absolutely no use for iridescent white in oil painting, which seems to me to be a gimmick colour: there are far too many of these 'special effect' colours in acrylic, I've no wish to see the tendency spread to oils. What a genuine review of oil painting whites should include is the role of lead white, which for generations was the only white in oil - there were several forms of it though - and which was largely responsible for the appearance of old master paintings which can't be replicated or approached with any of the whites in that promotional video. Flake White Hue, they say, replaces the toxic lead paint - they didn't discontinue Flake White because it was toxic! It's gone from the W & N range, and went from Daler Rowney's long ago, because the lead pigment was hard to find, was becoming increasingly expensive, and had to be contained in child-proof tins, and latterly in cartridges. They make it sound as though they're doing artists a service by replacing that nasty lead and offering a better product - but it isn't a better product, and that's not why they did it. Nannying government regulations, and the EU's intervention, together with the closure of facilities which manufactured lead chromate, have caused the most flexible and useful white in oils to be very hard to get today if you're in Europe: but you can still get it in the USA, and in tubes as well. The incidence of lead poisoning in the US is not exactly a major cause of disability and death. It's the hypocrisy of paint-makers, and the way they allowed the product to disappear from their ranges (although at least one of them still sells it in the USA!) which gets me cross. At the moment at least, lead paint - Cremnitz White, and at very great cost Stack Lead White and genuine Naples Yellow - can be obtained from Michael Harding: I know of no other manufacturer in Britain who offers it (and would be very interested to hear of any). Hence, my question about alternatives that actually might come somewhere near to the properties of lead whites: I haven't tried all of the paints on the market - haven't the money or the time - but if anyone else has found a white which is warm; which has that rope-like consistency; and doesn't, preferably, contain Zinc, I'd still like to know. I don't believe there is one, for all that paint manufacturers are trying to produce better whites, because it just can't be done. So in this case, we have a product which was the best for so many jobs, but is very hard to find; whereas generally paint quality has improved exponentially. This is a contradiction which I'd like to see resolved, but in the meantime I'm still after good quality information about good quality paint - and the W & N video doesn't offer it. http://www.isleofwightlandscapes.net http://www.wightpaint.blogspot.co.uk

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