Have any of us used the Bob Ross oil paints?

This isn't one of my bash Bob Ross sessions - I've been watching some of his videos on YouTube over the last few weeks; mostly to help me sleep - and I don't mean that unkindly; I have a problem with insomnia, and am not the only one to find Bob's voice extremely soothing, helping me to wind down before bed. The other thing I've noticed is the number of art material suppliers who offer an ever-growing selection of Bob Ross oil paints; the range now seems much greater than it was when he was still alive and working - so someone must be using this paint. Watching the videos, it's clear - and indeed he quite often makes reference to the fact - that the oils he uses are considerably thicker, stickier, than the paints you'd normally buy in either student or artist grade; the wet on wet technique he espoused wouldn't have worked without this fact - and that's one of the things that has created some anger with Ross, ie that you really couldn't use the technique with standard oil paints. We can lay all that to rest by now, though - so leaving aside all the caveats and arguments for a bit, have you used Bob Ross oils? If so, what did you make of them? Did you use them for the wet on wet technique, or for what for the sake of argument we'll call conventional oil painting? What are the upsides, the downsides? How have your paintings borne up over the years? And would you recommend BR paints? While we're at it - I've seen some of the Bob Ross painting equipment, brushes, canvases, and on the whole I wasn't especially struck by their quality, though the price seemed a bit steep. But I have long wondered about that wedge-shaped, semi-rigid painting knife he used - I can see a use for that ... I see Liquitex makes a very similar one for use with their acrylics, and I think I saw a similar shape on the Jacksons' website. I'm thinking of getting one - I don't honestly see myself buying the paint, for reasons I might come back to another day, but the knife looks like a useful tool. Anyone tried it?

I've spent much of this evening online, reading about Bob Ross paints to start with, then moving on - I hit the Michael Harding website.... now here's a real contrast. Of course the paint is totally different, you'd expect that; but what I couldn't find about Bob Ross paints (ie, virtually everything - there appears to be nothing about how the stuff is or was made, though so far as I can see manufacture looks to have been taken over by Daler-Rowney, of all people - hence the much larger range of colours than existed when Uncle Bob was running the show) was there by the sackload on the Harding site - real, solid information about colours, surfaces, mediums, thinners, application of paint, colour mixing.... I probably reached the Harding site at around 9.30pm, and it's 12.30 odd now. There's one article linked to others, and they link to more .... you can learn how to make sun-thickened Linseed oil (and every oil painter needs to know that), how Harding makes his Stack Process Lead White, how the Cremnitz White came to be made and the differences between Linseed and Walnut Oil ..... it's fascinating. This is someone who cares about the paint he makes and also cares about explaining it. He even tells you if there's any doubts about any of the products, and comes back with the latest information when it's available. (Eg, Zinc White, which has been discussed here quite recently.) You can trust a site like that and a product like that. Now - I have no reason to take against the Bob Ross paints at all, but the information available about them is zilch on stilts: it's all sales and PR fluff .... hence my question about it. If people are buying it, and given it's available on the Great Art, Granthams, Ken Bromley, even niche paint suppliers' sites, they must be, why can't you find out what it consists of? Why is the Pthalo Blue used by Ross clearly different - brighter and warmer, to start with - than regular PB? What is Liquid Clear, and "Magic White" or "Liquid White"? What is "Dark Sienna"? What's in their Vandyke Brown (which was a highly fugitive colour once upon a time)? Have Daler-Rowney replaced some of the obviously inferior, yellowing mediums that people used to complain about? Is it any flaming GOOD? Dunno! Unless oil painters visiting POL can tell us, I don't know how you'd find out.... The method you refer to - well yes, exactly .... leaving aside the paint, the trouble lies in what these Certified Ross Instructors do with it, and what they do with it is utterly predictable, template painting. I was wondering, basically, if anything good could come out of the product - I've long realized no good was ever going to come out of the Bob Ross method in itself. He did enthuse people, I think, and I hope some of his students moved on from the sterile predictability of painting endless rows of Alaskan mountains: perhaps they did. And I do like watching his videos. But your experience is very typical - and I've been in this argument before!

I've read that too - the snag with this product is that it's divided equally between those who loathe it and Ross, and those who won't hear a word against him. The product should however be able to stand or fall on its own merits, it's just that you can't find, or I haven't so far found, a proper evaluation. If the liquid white yellows, it must mean its liquidity is achieved by a lot of Linseed oil, plus - possibly - something else - there would surely be ways of counteracting that, though, and yet still you hear, or heard, the complaint of yellowing. Is it better now - has the product improved, and the technique become viable (leaving aside the way it's applied)? Tell us/me, someone!

Well, as you know perfectly well Sylvia, I'm not signing up for a Bob Ross painting course, and would rather be beaten to death with a nail-studded club - besides which, they wouldn't know what went into the paint - trusting souls.... I could ask Daler-Rowney, yes; but they won't tell me what the paint is like to actually use - they could hardly be expected to - and that's what interests me. However, they might have something to say about the thickness of the paint..... I shall try this.

Well, I've asked 'em - by email. We'll see - certainly there's an absolute absence of any technical information about BR products online, other than questions about the habit of their liquid white and liquid clear to yellow disastrously, which never seem to get answered. I trust Ross-ites will realize what a service I'm trying to provide them with here, and send me a giant Easter egg when the time is ripe..... There's an awful lot of fluff and padding about this product - you try to fight through it to get to a hard centre, and damned if there is one. A lot of stuff about the lad's painting technique, allied with plugs for colours and consistencies - a flower range; a landscape range; a wildlife range - that he never, ever used. If D-R ARE now making them, they're a reputable company, and were a British company until this month - now I see they've been bought by an Italian-based outfit ..... is nothing sacred, etc?

Morning Pat - you're an early riser and a half.... I've been up for an hour already myself, but was too bleary-eyed to try answering your post until now, and it's still only 7.20am - you wouldn't be a fellow-insomniac, would you? The first thread - the Wet Canvas one - shows how much things have changed in ten years, because it's about that old, and how many things haven't. The Ross paint was then made by the Weber company in the US, and there were as many questions about it then as now, and still no real answers. I was familiar with the second link, from empty easel, which I occasionally visit - I could have written that particular article myself (though I didn't): it encapsulates all the criticisms of the Bob Ross method and puts it very moderately - but I bet the writer got snowed under with replies which, wisely, they don't show on the website - I had quite a few when I questioned the technique on my blog (at least it proves someone reads it... I was beginning to wonder). The other painter you should never ever criticize, unless you don't mind the frail of intellect descending on you, is Thomas Kinkade - spelling may be wrong - who also has followers not unlike religious devotees. A truly awful painter, although technically very sound - and I'm not sure one can say the latter about Bob Ross. About.com is an interesting resource generally, but I felt they got a bit tired of the sheer size of the subject in this survey of different paint brands - they ask some of the right questions, but veer away from answering them - perhaps it's unreasonable to expect to find one place, where you can get really good, reliable information; but unless anyone out there knows better, there isn't one (now there's a challenge..). The WetCanvas thread perhaps shows us why this might be - things change so much in the art world: eg, the Old Holland paint one contributor referred to with such enthusiasm is no longer available; and companies get swallowed up, as Daler-Rowney has just been - leaving you hoping that whatever goes on in the boardroom, they don't do to our paint what those who took over Cadbury's have done to their creme eggs. If they muck about with Cryla Acrylic, or Daler Rowney Artsists oils, I shall fashion a crude placard and march on the company's headquarters - always assuming I can find it. The more I look into all this, the more I understand why Lucien Freud bought up huge stocks of Cremnitz White - it was the only way he could ensure it would still be available to him - the comings and goings of companies and products don't inspire any long-term confidence.