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Clouds
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Message
Posted
Despite the gloomy summer, I've been painting landscapes outside. What I've found is that under certain light conditions, the colour of the shade side of clouds can be hard to represent. I'm talking about the big billowy cumulus clouds that bubble up on warm sunny afternoons.
The colour of the shade side (away from the sun) is normally a neutral grey, whereas the underneath of the cloud (its base) is a cool grey with a touch of blue.
A mix of burnt sienna, ultra blue and white usually doesn't look convincing.
Ultra blue, a touch of cadmium red and white is better, except that when I mix it, the colour seems too blue, or even purple. I've tried adding various yellows, which should neutralise the purple, yet it's hard to get it right without spending a lot of time on mixing. When painting outdoors, it's important to do the clouds quickly before they change.
Does anybody have any ideas on how to get the colour right?
I normally use W&N artists oils or Griffin alkyds.
Posted
I should think many of us have struggled with this - reluctant though I am to suggest formulae for painting anything, particularly if I think it's my little secret, I do have a mix for cloud shadows of this type which you might feel like playing with: it's Cobalt Blue, Cadmium Red Deep, and Raw Sienna. I've also used Mars Violet Deep and Cobalt Blue. It's got to be real Cobalt Blue, not the Hue variety, but you can use Winsor Red Deep instead of the Cadmium, and it works, if differently. I agree with you about Ultramarine and Burnt Sienna - I have a painting in which I used those very colours, and I've never been happy with it: the shadow is too stark - probably I didn't blend it in very well anyway, but that would be because I just wasn't convinced by it at the time.
Using Ultramarine with any red IS going to give you a purplish outcome; the Cobalt carries much less red in its make-up and should neutralize the red and yellow a bit. Maybe Cerulean would work .... I just have a feeling it wouldn't, but I must give it a try.
I'd be interested to hear if you can make anything of my recipe - I certainly don't think you're alone in the problem you've described. The downside of my first suggestion is that these are expensive paints (the Cobalt and the Cadmium), but probably all oil painters have had to come to terms with the fact that the paints with the magic ingredient also have a fairly magical price-tag.
Posted
Well I use Ult blue, light red and raw sienna most of the time for billowy clouds and get a result that suits me - for other skies i often use paynes gray cobalt blue ult violet etc. Not sure who folk want to replicate the exact colours they see in the sky - it's so much more exciting to interpret the sky using different clours - this is where the artist comes into his own.
Posted
This identifies another problem with the site. When you click on to 'latest' as I do you never know which forum heading the topict has been made under. It was not until I went back to the forum home page that I realised that this topic is under 'oil'. My fault as I only tend to read the last few comments - shouldn't be so lazy but it would help if the forum headings were given under latest. That aside I am not sure the impressionists would agree with you Robert but I do take your point.
Edited
by Michael Edwards
Posted
Most of the Impressionists painted in oil exclusively - but there are watercolours by Cézanne and he may well not have agreed with me (neither would Michael Willcox, who sells the same range of colours in all media). The difference, which can be crucial, is that colour mixes in watercolour and oil aren't made the same way: in watercolour it would be (say) just ultramarine and burnt sienna, water being the vehicle - that would disperse the paint molecules and you'd get a particular effect; flocculation and granulation in this case: even more so if you'd used Light Red instead of the Burnt Sienna. The result in oil is modified by the white you will inevitably be mixing with it - that which worked so well in watercolour can quickly turn to battleship grey (although nowhere near so horribly as if you'd used black, or Paynes Grey - the second of which can also work very well in watercolour skies, but not in oil: usually).
The object here was to get some colour into cloud shadow without making it too obtrusively purple - hence the suggestion of (basically) dark orange and neutral blue. The problem with the mix is that it can suddenly veer towards green, depending on how you mix it - so a little caution is needed.
Posted
Ooh, clouds. I like clouds. I have two colour mix varieties that work well for me...
If I'm using lots of tubes: Ultramarine, burnt umber, titanium white, usually with a smidge of the phthalo/titanium sky mix. I think this is an example of that:
If I'm using four tubes: All of them. That's rose madder quinacridone, lemon yellow, phthalo blue and titanium white. I know this is an example of that:
... but I guess that my approach might be a bit sketchy and laissez-faire for some.
If I'm using four tubes: All of them. That's rose madder quinacridone, lemon yellow, phthalo blue and titanium white. I know this is an example of that:
... but I guess that my approach might be a bit sketchy and laissez-faire for some.