Thank you for your report!
We have received your report and it is currently under investigation by a forum moderator.
Portraits
Welcome to the forum.
Here you can discuss all things art with like-minded artists, join regular painting challenges, ask questions, buy and sell art materials and much more.
Make sure you sign in or register to join the discussions.
Message
Posted
Some ramblings about portraits and portrait painting...
I'm lucky enough to appreciate most genres of art, but, apart from cartoons and caricature, it's portraits that most appeal to me. To my mind, the most difficult subject, where the tiniest of errors can spoil the artwork. In a way it's akin the cartooning, where it's people under the microscope albeit in an offbeat way. I don't do many portraits, where a likeness is the main thing. I do like drawing/painting 'types', often evolving into stereotype caricatures when that was not my intention. (Just done a couple, but more about that later). When I have the good fortune to be in an art gallery, it's portraits that grab my attention.
In a way, 'LIKENESS' is not the main thing. In many cases I've no idea who the people are, and therefore whether there was a good likeness achieved. So I guess what's most important to me is...'is it a good painting'...is it a living, breathing representation of a person painted in an interesting way? The experts tell uspaint from life. But I'm looking for expression in the human face, you can't ask that of a model sat in a chair for an hour keeping still. That lively, humorous expression will have slipped away to a wooden stare after the first two minutes.
Here are two wooden stares, paradoxically in one of my favorite paintings, Hans Holbein's 'The Ambassadors' in the National Gallery...
...look at those faces...all faces have an expression, even if it's blank (or wooden) as here. This is what the 'paint from life' artist sees after a few minutes. The blank face of a person wondering whether he's put the cat out, or if he should see his dentist. But I like this painting, he's crammed it with interest, including that strange elongated skull, and it's beautifully painted. Many artists overcome the wooden stare of course, I wouldn't be able to manage it. I'd paint from a photo, this allows you to capture the many fleeting, and interesting, expressions that flit across their face. Several artists here on POL do just that...if I were a portrait painter I'd be one of them.
As I've said some artists do the paint from life very well. That bloke...Leonardo something, was one of them. Apparently, he was tinkering with this for 15 years, I'll bet it was the expression he wasn't happy with...
...and get it right he did. It's a very subtle look. If I got that look from a young lady, I'd reckon I was in with a chance.
Then there was Rembrandt, he didn't have photos. But he was a Genius. If you need to be a genius to be a portrait painter I've had it.
Here's another genius, and a favorite painting. Juan de Parega by Velazquez.
Let's get away from these old master geniuses...they are shooting my argument in the foot. Here's what I consider to be a modern genius who does use photos as reference...Sebastien Kruger...who we've seen before on POL.
The Laurel and Hardy portrait caricature is inspired...a perfect likeness, and you can't even see their faces...but who else could it be?
I like this portrait by Degas...the central figure, a banker, commissioned the painting. Degas has shown him at the stock market. To me it has a sense of immediacy, a snap-shot of real life. A great way to paint a portrait. And Degas used photos when it suited him.
I may come back to this. Had enough for now...I've had enough typing with my sausage fingers, continuously correcting things.
...look at those faces...all faces have an expression, even if it's blank (or wooden) as here. This is what the 'paint from life' artist sees after a few minutes. The blank face of a person wondering whether he's put the cat out, or if he should see his dentist. But I like this painting, he's crammed it with interest, including that strange elongated skull, and it's beautifully painted. Many artists overcome the wooden stare of course, I wouldn't be able to manage it. I'd paint from a photo, this allows you to capture the many fleeting, and interesting, expressions that flit across their face. Several artists here on POL do just that...if I were a portrait painter I'd be one of them.
As I've said some artists do the paint from life very well. That bloke...Leonardo something, was one of them. Apparently, he was tinkering with this for 15 years, I'll bet it was the expression he wasn't happy with...
...and get it right he did. It's a very subtle look. If I got that look from a young lady, I'd reckon I was in with a chance.
Then there was Rembrandt, he didn't have photos. But he was a Genius. If you need to be a genius to be a portrait painter I've had it.
Here's another genius, and a favorite painting. Juan de Parega by Velazquez.
Let's get away from these old master geniuses...they are shooting my argument in the foot. Here's what I consider to be a modern genius who does use photos as reference...Sebastien Kruger...who we've seen before on POL.
The Laurel and Hardy portrait caricature is inspired...a perfect likeness, and you can't even see their faces...but who else could it be?
I like this portrait by Degas...the central figure, a banker, commissioned the painting. Degas has shown him at the stock market. To me it has a sense of immediacy, a snap-shot of real life. A great way to paint a portrait. And Degas used photos when it suited him.
I may come back to this. Had enough for now...I've had enough typing with my sausage fingers, continuously correcting things.
Posted
There's nothing wrong with using photos, but as an adjunct - I'm not an experienced portraitist: my sum total so far is certainly less than ten; but the way to keep the face from rigidifying in front of you is to keep talking with the subject ... I think you'd really have to if you wanted a portrait with any life in it; if accuracy is all you want, then a photograph might give you the material you need; all I can say is that I've done both, and found the working from a live human being a lot more rewarding than, basically, trying to copy photos.
I suspect it might be different for everyone, though - I used to do a lot of cartoons (wish I'd kept them, but Lew's would leave them standing) so I learned eventually that the head is NOT the shape of an egg, Mr Art teacher: and that "drawing around the houses" as he put it, is probably better than mapping every head out as a geometric exercise; on the other hand, his meticulous drawings were impressive - I just couldn't replicate them. So I've got wary about generalizing, but Lew - however you do it, keep doing it: you've cracked it, sir!
Posted
On reading back I’ve made this seem like a ‘paint from life v photos theme. Not intended, it’s meant to be more a ramble about portraits in general, and how I’d approach it if I did more portraits. I’ve tried both, but think I’d prefer to use photos. So let’s agree there’s room for both methods. My dinner’s about to burst into flames, so I’ll return to this later.
Posted
I like the Degas picture Lew.
I'm reminded of an unfinished portrait I started from a photocopy of a press photo, that a tutor made available in a class. I felt sure it was either Lennie Bernstein or Von Karajan, the conductors. Tutor didn't know who it was.
Turns out it was Duncan Campbell the journalist who died last week. The Guardian used another photo of him in the obit.
But now I know a bit about him and have an alternative image (albeit from the same photoshoot, same clothes etc) I think I will continue and finish it. But it's no longer a portrait of 'a person', so I may feel inhibited about a likeness.
Posted
Thanks for the post Lewis. I love painting portraits. Some I've done from 'real life' and others from photos. But., almost without exception, I have known the people I am painting and therefore that essential 'something' - a mood/a twinkle/an emotion/humour, call it what you will goes far beyond the photo and I like to think I always capture that something extra. that makes a person their unique self. Certainly the people I've painted seem to think I have captured them in ways that go beyond a likeness. Some go better than others but the ones that fly off my paintbrush are always ones where I have an emotional connection with the sitter. I personally think it's wrong to suggest that somehow painting portraits from photos is in some way inferior which is a bit of a reoccurring theme in some art circles but in my experience (limited that it is), sometimes it's very useful and sometimes not. Not sure if this helps the debate but that's my view anyway.
Posted
Heather, I hadn’t meant to go down the ‘from life OR from photo’ debate. My opening remarks should have been more considered. So let’s drop that debate. I wanted to talk about portraiture in general. It’s always inspired me. The wonder of faces I guess. All faces fit the accepted art ‘proportions ‘ guides, yet we all look different.
I find many of the artist portraitists right here on POL inspiring, yourself included Heather. My wall on this app has only work done by other POL artists. I have several of your wonderful pieces on there. (This might be a subject for Paul’s thread, provided he doesn’t want me to do it…I’m certain to miss somebody that I really admire.)
I’m intending to show portraits I like, if you have any please say your piece.
Posted
I’m interested in the human face. Can’t help it, everything else is secondary for me. Someone said to me, there is a certain look I go for.
I don’t like the emptiness of a sure-fire pose. Life doesn’t give what I want straight away, sometimes not at all. I trawl through zillions of photos, some I manipulate, others I let be and just paint. I didn’t enjoy my daughter’s life sitting, seven sittings, with a picture of my dog imposed. I don’t enjoy the adjustments when you are under the pressure of time. I feel like painting a face is stretching it tight, then letting it spring back. Let the lookers decide what they are thinking, usually multi layered definition's of one person.
I know this isn’t a dig at life and photos, but they should be talked about, putting your best foot forward without friction. In most cases it’s a sore point. Don’t know why? If I was richer I would do more life work, with time on my hands, but I must explain, that I would pay someone to get the pose I want, or the expression of the face. This is a major thing you must capture, me anyway. It drives me with inspiration! I am heading towards a lot more life work, but in my own terms, and as I get older with more time. This is a point for me, a true point, without the finger pointing of others to deal with. You see, Lew, that’s how it works, an everyday point that has never been muted, unless I perform for others and not be true to my own heart. Seems if you talk about it in any way, you can feel the blood boil. It’s as bad as politics or religion in my view, maybe because I’m a portrait artist.
Edited
by Martin Shaw
Posted
Although I don't consider myself a portrait painter, I paint many things, the face is becoming increasingly one of my favourites. I think we see an emotion or particular features that are of interest. For me, portraits are a reflection of human emotion I guess. I have used photos, painted people I know and now sketch regularly portraits of models from life. All valued methods of learning I would say. Having some experience in all, I do now find it is much simpler doing a portrait from life compared to using a photo. Opinions will differ but for me getting a likeness is important. If I asked someone to do a portrait of me and it didn't look like me, I don't think I would be to happy.
Posted
I've never been a portrait Painter in all seriousness. Done a few back in the day, but it's not really my thing. However I totally agree with Denise that likeness of the person is the most important aspect. When you think of discussions about portraits painted of famous people and mostly those discussions are whether the painting actually looks like them rather than the actual painting. Maybe people want a photo image of the said person.
I know this is not a discussion on photos v. Life, and as I've said I have little experience in portrait painting, but I think if I did I would probably like to use both. The same as drawing a building in situ, but having a photo for reference. I think as with many creative things in life there can be a lot of snobbery and there are no rules really. Just my musings.....from a person who doesn't paint portraits.
Posted
One of the best portrait artists on this site, in my opinion, is Michele Ashby. Her work is superb and captures personality and reality really well.
Watching PAOTY I am always annoyed when so many artists use their iPad or phone while ignoring the sitter in front of them. That seems both an insult to the sitter and an unwillingness to accept the challenge before them.
I do love some of the Old Masters portraits and will look some out. The Laurel and hardy above is great, also the Velasquez and Degas.
Posted
I agree Denise, I'm glad you've found it better to paint from life. Your portraits are getting better and better. I'd prefer to use a photo reference, but we must each find the method best for us.
When I think of portraits I tend to think of the standard head and shoulders job, but portraiture can be presented in other ways. The painting below is a favorite of mine. Gainsborough's Mr and Mrs Andrews, painted in 1750.
An interesting work, where the landscape plays an important part of the picture. It's considered to be an early example of English landscape art, although it's primarily a portrait. Gainsborough was a young up-and-coming artist when this was painted. He achieved great success as a portrait painter, although he said in later life that landscape was his true love. Back then it was considered an inferior art, and paid far less than portraiture. This work also include a famous 'missing area'...the patch left unpainted in the woman's lap. Several explanations have been offered...it was to be a pheasant, or a pet, or even Mrs Andrew's unborn baby (she was pregnant). Maybe we'll never know for sure why this small area was left unpainted. It all adds to the work's mystique. I think this painting is a gem. It hangs in the National Gallery.
I also admire this famous Hockney painting. Mr and Mrs Clark...painted in 1971.
Portraits don't have to be of famous people, here's a truly sublime piece of work...Vermeer's 'The Milk Maid.'
...a wonderfully calm and atmospheric work, painted 400 years ago.
One type of portraiture I have mixed feelings about are the Dutch group portraits, often skillfully painted, but boring and dry as dust. Banquet of the civil guards by Frans Hals...
He could certainly paint, but this does nothing for me.
More later.
An interesting work, where the landscape plays an important part of the picture. It's considered to be an early example of English landscape art, although it's primarily a portrait. Gainsborough was a young up-and-coming artist when this was painted. He achieved great success as a portrait painter, although he said in later life that landscape was his true love. Back then it was considered an inferior art, and paid far less than portraiture. This work also include a famous 'missing area'...the patch left unpainted in the woman's lap. Several explanations have been offered...it was to be a pheasant, or a pet, or even Mrs Andrew's unborn baby (she was pregnant). Maybe we'll never know for sure why this small area was left unpainted. It all adds to the work's mystique. I think this painting is a gem. It hangs in the National Gallery.
I also admire this famous Hockney painting. Mr and Mrs Clark...painted in 1971.
Portraits don't have to be of famous people, here's a truly sublime piece of work...Vermeer's 'The Milk Maid.'
...a wonderfully calm and atmospheric work, painted 400 years ago.
One type of portraiture I have mixed feelings about are the Dutch group portraits, often skillfully painted, but boring and dry as dust. Banquet of the civil guards by Frans Hals...
He could certainly paint, but this does nothing for me.
More later.
