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Is Painters on line changing?
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Message
Posted
I have been using the forum for some time now although being hampered by age and infirmity. My painting, in all honesty, has not improved much, in fact it has "gone back " I have noticed recently that comments, requests for help etc seem to be giving way to rightful indignation about spammers and a trend towards a semi business club with queries about how much to charge. This is not, I assure you, sour grapes but it indicates rising standards and a subtle change of outlook. I was involved in genealogy for many years until members, who once would help newcomers in searching, started charging for their services and local clubs giving legal advice to members on helping others. Nothing stands still; it is said that things [clubs] either grow or die.
Which way is Painters on Line heading?
Sketcher [Kevin Keeley]
Posted
It's rather a matter of opinion - I commented a while ago that the standard of work on the Gallery was as high as I had seen it; someone replied that no, it didn't seem to have changed at all. Perhaps I've just been around longer, so have noticed what you have probably noticed. The standard - I suppose the level of professionalism - has crept up over time. But I don't think this is a deliberate direction - the site has its own imperatives: it grows organically, in some desirable ways and in some less desirable ones (of which the spam is a currently irritating example).
There do seem to be rather more people who are selling their work, or trying to - so perhaps (at the moment) the focus is more on professionals or would-be professionals than those loosely described as "leisure painters". It's the balance symbolized by there being two magazines - Leisure Painter on the one hand, The Artist on the other (although in fact I find the boundaries between those publications a bit blurry sometimes) - and it will tip one way or the other at any given moment.
There's certainly, so far as I'm aware, no desire or plan to squeeze the leisure painters out, or to head in a more professional direction - and anyway, if professionalism is defined by sales, I'm always surprised by what sells and what doesn't: so I don't think any of these labels we apply to people are particularly accurate. The site has always been open to all painters and artists generally, whatever standard they have reached or strive to reach - I don't believe that is changing.
Posted
I haven't been around here long enough to witness any change, though the internet in general has gone the direction you indicate. A long while ago there were user-groups where you could get virtually anything from a rare movie or piece of music to an instructional book completely free just by requesting... people would trade favours (I remember getting car parts through the post that I couldn't find) and people bent over backwards to help each other.
Now it does seem like everything is monetized, adverts about formally advert free sites etc, but I am sure there are still people willing to help each other and artists having a reputation for being open people are probably more likely than others in this regard. The idea of getting some money back for my art is an appealing one, if only to negate what I spend on materials but money is not my motivation and is quite secondary to the pursuit of improvement.
Posted
I think it's important in a Forum such as this for absolute beginners to be able to have a conversation with seasoned professionals about quite mundane matters - how to hold a brush, what quality of paint/ paper to buy, how to pronounce moleskin etc - without fear of being ridiculed, and then continue that conversation as they develop. If that doesn't happen, then knowledge won't get passed on - and that includes business-related skillsets - and the art will die out.
I'd like to make money from art one day. Who wouldn't?
Edited
by alang23
Posted
I have no way of judging if POL is changing, having been here for about four months. At the moment it seems a healthy mix for both leisure painters (like me) and professionals. I've been drawing and painting all my life, but have never learn the 'proper' way to do things (if there is such a thing). I get by on picking up odd tips. There are plenty available online, and a concentration here on POL. I read most of the 'how to' themes on POL, even if about a medium I don't use. Often I don't comment, but find the information useful. For example, a while back somebody was asking about painting detail...saying no matter how small a brush they used, they struggled. Someone, I'm pretty sure it was Robert, said try using a larger brush for the details. (Most brushes have a point). It worked for me. The simplest of advice, but the opposite of what you'd expect. This is the kind of advice I find the most useful...small, easily digestible tidbits. So, I don't think POL is getting away from the Leisure artist, if it were, I don't think I'd still be here.
Lew.
Posted
I've been here for about three years I think, so whether that's long or short is up to others to decide. I don't think the site per se is going professional - just look at the amount of 'really not that good but it's good amateur stuff at best'...and I count some of my own bits in this. There is also a lot of really poor stuff and, lets be honest, some really boring stuff. There's also stuff which is divisive...is it art? Is it painting? There is though also the newer stuff of impeccable quality: look at the Hong Kong series recently, and look at Timothy Holmes stuff. There is more, much more who's names I have not mentioned but we all could. There is a lot of professional sellable stuff amongst the amateur art club stuff.
Now I don't think this means the SITE is changing direction, but I would argue it is because as the site gains traction and respect those artists who can paint to a sellable professional standard (whatever that is) WANT to populate this site because it gives them credible, valuable, even satisfying, exposure. The chap who painted Hong Kong would never in a million years exhibit in the Alderbury Village Hall amateur one handed artists club annual gallery, but he is exhibiting here...and that tells us something.
So this site isn't changing direction, it is however gaining respect. What we must do I imagine is make sure that the forum stays useful and useable - with as much credibility as the gallery. The company has a challenge here vis a vis the spammers of course. By doing this we will keep the amateurs and learners mixing with the really good artists who are happy to teach others. And we all get to see the high quality 'professional' stuff which is put here because we have the first two criteria met.
That's my take anyway.
David
Posted
It seems to me that this forum still caters for people of all abilities which is its great strength and the questions and points of view still reflect that. This is evidenced by the fact so often the same topics reappear and when they do I seem to spend agonising time trying to find the previous discussion in the annals of POL history - usually with very little success.