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Water-colour pencils - oil-based, wax-based, water-based...???
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Message
Posted
I have Faber-Castell and Inktense coloured pencils, both are water soluble. I like them. Just lately I've a fad for drawing in monochrome with a blue coloured pencil. (I expect this will pass, but at the moment I like it.)
I've been reading good things about Prismacolor and Polychromos coloured pencils. The first is wax-based, the second oil-based. I hadn't really given this much thought until I considered buying some. At the moment I've just bought ONE blue polychromos pencil, to try it.
With my present pencils, the Fabers seem to hold a point better than the Inktense...also the 'lead' (wrong word but you know what I mean) has broken quite often with the Inktense. (The new single Polychromos also holds it's point, and sharpens easily.) But I like them both and obviously they can be used together.
I've tried genning up online, and a couple of things caught my attention.
On one video, an artist was praising Polychromos...preferring them over Prismacolor. Polychromos are made by Faber Castell. The artist said you could use all your other Faber-Castell pencils with the Polychromos, as they use the same colours/pigments.
I'm not sure why you'd want to, but surely you can't mix water based with oil-based...the standard rules about paint mediums must apply. So, I can use my new Polychromos pencil on top of the water based variety...but not the other way round. This is what I was hoping to do, before I thought about it. I'm just doing a drawing using both, and luckily got things the right way around. Before the little grey cells kicked in, I'd been hoping to draw with Polychromos and THEN use the Faber Castell water-based on top.
Has anyone done this? Probably doesn't matter too much in my case, I don't sell, I just do it for fun. At my age lightfastness and longevity aren't that important.
The other thing I read was that the oil-based Polychromos can be blended with oil mediums...used sparingly of course. Has anyone done that?
I'm asking this because Xmas is on it's way and I might want to make a pitch for some new colour pencils.
The same problem presumably applies with Prismacolor...wax based. However, most reviewers say the wax pencils blend better than the oil based version. And most reviewers think all the Faber range hold their point better.
If anyone has any views on this I'd be interested to read them.
Posted
Like you Lewis I also like to use inktense pencils,. There are many different ways you can apply the colour from them. Direct on to the paper dry, then wet, into wet to make the colour softer, or by using the brush to take the paint direct from the pencil and then apply to the paper, this way you get a smoother finish then if you colour the paper and then wet it.
I guess from the videos I have watched, on water based pencils, you can apply your washes from them to make a start, and then draw on top to add detail with the oil based pencils, and being the same pigment colour you would get a natural look.
I would assume you can’t use the other way around because the oil based pencil would resit the water.
Edited
by Alan Beresford
Posted
I haven't tried all those Alan. Mostly I use the inktense, then wet and 'almost paint' with the damp brush. When dry, I'll often rework areas with colour, sometimes using a damp brush again, or sometimes leaving the added colour dry. So I'm fine with water-based coloured pencils. But I'll certainly try some of the things you've mentioned.
I've seen such wonderful art using Prizmacolor (wax) and Polychromos (Oil), that I'm thinking of getting some. It's blending that I'm not sure about, especially with the oil-based pencils. Blending the water based pencils is no problem.
I guess I've accepted that I can't mix water, wax and oil...so is it worth switching entirely to ONE type? In all probability I'll end up sticking with what I have.
Posted
I’ve got a set of 32 Inktense, which I don’t use very much. I do use them with watercolour and ink And maybe I will use them a bit more now that I have down sized my paintings. I also use Derwent Artbars with them as well, which I have used a bit more. Although they did not take off commercially as they are not lightfast, they have some great colours arranged in a dark, light dull and bright sections- colours that do not appear in the usual watercolour range. e.g. pink oxide, beige, paprika.
I would love to try the new Derwent Lightfast pencils which are oil based. There is an article/demo using Lightfast in this months “The Artist”, but it was not very informative about the medium. However it was obvious that very dark darks can be achieved.
Posted
Alan, thus far I haven't used blending devices, only having water-based pencils I seem able to blend with a damp brush. You mention Derwent Artists Pencils, which, from what you wrote sound wax-based. How do these compare with the Inktense? I shall have to try blenders, they don't seem expensive.
Linda, I hadn't heard of the Derwent Lightfast pencils. As I've said, the lightfastness is not a big issue with me, what I'm looking for are pencils that hold their point reasonably well, don't keep breaking when you sharpen them, have bright colours, and are easily blended. I've had a quick look at them...the Derwent description seems to meet all my requirements (but that's what a manufacturer WOULD say.) A quick scan through purchasers reviews, suggest that 'breaking' IS an issue with these pencils. They seem fairly pricey...24 Derwent Lightfast £41...whereas 24 Faber Polychromos £30 (Amazon).
It's looking like if I want to upgrade, I'm going to have the choose between oil-based OR wax-based.
Thank you both for your input.
Posted
I've tried various watercolour pencils and crayons. In the Derwent range, I once bought Graphitint watercolour pencils based on graphite with pigments added. The range of colours were limited to blues, browns, a few greens and the pictures I drew looked murky. I think they were discontinued. The Derwent watercolour pencils were better, although the pigments weren't very bright. The last watercolour pencils I bought were by Caran D'Ache watercolour pencils - expensive, with strong vibrant colours. These are nice to use.
For large drawings in life classes I occasionally use Derwent Coloursoft, I don't know if these are still available.
For the time being, I've stopped using watercolour pencils, because I decided to try digital drawing and painting on an iPad tablet. It costs about £1100 for the largest size, including the Apple pen. The drawing/painting app, Procreate, is very good and it's only £10.
It's fairly easy to do simple drawings on the tablet. To make full use of the wide range of features takes some time to learn - in my case about three months. I can now draw and paint in a wide variety of styles using the iPad, and the paintings are much better than using watercolour pencils on paper.
Edited
by Keith Orange
Posted
Agree with Keith about Caran d'Ache - which, though I might just have been unlucky or clumsy, were a lot easier to sharpen than the Derwent range: how you sharpen their pastel pencils with anything less than a scalpel, I don't know. They're all expensive, especially if bought as a set - but I suppose for lightfast pigments you must be prepared to dig deep into the reluctant pocket.
Not as deep as the £1100 for an Ipad, though. Presumably you can print your results to provide an image to sell, but .... on what, with what, how archival are the results, how could anyone be sure they were receiving a unique image - and is the last of these important? I can see a use for them in producing prints, but there's a little voice in the back of my head muttering "Screens! Everything these days is on ***** screens! You write your letters on screens, you contact people through screens, and at the moment if you want to hold a meeting, it's done through screens, and now they're saying I've got to paint that way as well??"
Ah, the voices, the voices! Perhaps they should increase the medication ..... but still; and all; I meantersay.....
Posted
Thanks Keith, I've read good things about Caran d'Ache, but they are the most expensive by far...I'll probably end up with a mixed bag of odd and ends. I like Digital art, and used to do some...Photoshop Elements. Relatively cheap and a great app. I used it on my PC. It required a lot of fiddly selection, with my old hands I can't be bothered these days. Haven't got an Ipad, but I expect the modern apps are easier to use than my ancient version of photoshop.
Yes Robert...screens...that's pretty close to screams, isn't it? That said I love my TV, and desktop. I've got a mobile phone (for emergencies) that I never use, and that's about it.
The sharpening and holding a point aspect of coloured pencils is a key point for me. I have water soluble Inktense, they won't sharpen in my pencil sharpener...they keep breaking. When I've carefully honed a point with a scalpel, it breaks fairly quickly when I draw with it. Frustrating. I bought ONE Polychromos pencil as a try-out, a few turns in my sharpener gives a great point, and it lasts well during drawing. So it looks like I'll be getting them.
Posted
That's a very useful tip about Polychromos pencils - may well be the way to go.
I don't know if this would interest you or not, but Staedtler used to produce a wax-based water-soluble paint, in pots, which I found very pleasant to work with: so of course, they went and discontinued it! On safety grounds, they said - possibly the wax was flammable, I can't think what else they'd have meant.
Anyway - they then created a pencil range, which is Karat Liqua in a wooden case - I don't have many, but the colours are as intense as the pots used to be, and are water-soluble. I have to add that at least two of mine have developed cracks in the wood, so I've bound them together with tape. But if you encounter them, they might also be worth a try.
I'm getting a sense of déja-vu - or déja-dit - so apologies if I've said this before.
Posted
I had a quick look, Robert. In a general search Staedtler's Karat Liqua wax came up (in pots), nothing about pencils...and nothing at all on Amazon. I'll leave that one. I'm keen on decent colour pencils because, despite the blocking in with colour, it feels like another form of drawing...and that's what I'm happiest doing.