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Posted
Saw your acrylic on YouTube, Alan; I know you weren't very happy with it....
I agree with the MDF idea, I've used it with success - the snag with it is that, like hardboard, it can warp, and the thicker sizes are very heavy: I live in constant dread of hearing that two paintings I sold on heavy MDF board have ripped the rawlplugs out of the plaster: I did warn 'em to attach it by several points, but I really don't like painting on something that heavy - even though of course paintings were often executed on seasoned wood, when such a substance was available. The thin stuff needs to be held in a frame, and put in it as soon as possible, before it develops a warp you can't get rid of. (There are those who prime and/or size it on both sides: whether that really works or not, I don't know.)
I wouldn't necessarily abandon the Loxley canvas boards, though. First, I'd check the boards to ensure there's no shiny surface - if there is, it usually means an anti-fungicide has been employed (I'd be surprised if Loxley did that, but I know another manufacturer bought in inexpensive boards from India which had been so treated, and it's not a good surface for acrylic. Hold the board against a raking light so you can see, and then if there is a shine, wash it off - plain lukewarm water, but even add a little household soap if it won't shift, and then make sure you wash all that away. And then, I'd get myself a tub of Daler-Rowney Cryla gesso, and when the surface of the board is quite dry, add several coats of that (and as David says, treat the MDF or plywood the same way). It's a much better surface to work on, not slick and slippery, and the acrylic will stick to it.
If you find you don't like the surface of MDF, even with the gesso, you can of course stick watercolour paper to it and work on that - some prime that with gesso, others like the paper as it is. Whichever method you use, I like to lay down a layer of colour on my boards, leave it to dry, and then work on top of that - I'm not keen on charging right in with a wet on wet painting in acrylic, unless it's on paper.
Posted
I do tend to use w & Newton canvas & occasionally use mdf .I have never had a warp problem. medium density fibre board I suspect is a better bet than plyboard that does actually warp.Using Gesso primer also gives the surface some tooth and is perfect also for mixed media work .I don't work on a very large scale with mdf .my recent painting para gliders over Sousse was painted on this surface and the dimension is 24" x 29" heavier than a canvas yes but not that heavy that it will rip the rawl plug out of the wall .Overall the old saying spend on painting materials the most you can afford .I tend to use pre stretched w&newton cotton or preferably linen canvas .
Posted
Picking up this topic again, having just browsed it after a regrettably long absence, I still find Atelier trouble free in use. However, on a whim I bought a 'Starter Set' of Golden Open Acrylics. (Inspired by a You Tube Tutorial) As yet I have not used them. I am wondering whether they are used like Atelier, with water, or not? I would be pleased to hear comments from any artist who has used the Golden Open Acrylics, which are said to have a longer drying time, hence 'Open' I am aware that a good way to learn how they behave would be to use them and find out for myself, but they are sitting there in a cool spot in my painting area (It would be far too pretentious to call it my Studio...just wish I had a proper one.. but I can dream, can't I...?) What medium do they require? Any ideas please?
Posted
I watched a video to day and he had used a mix of plaster of paris and pva on his board .,,and .when he was painting his acrylic he used watered down PVA
in his water ... any way today I coated my plywood boards both sides with watered down pva glue .. and on one.. when dry .I did a mix of pva (watered down) and pollyfilla ..to give a rough white finish, .it was ok to do my acrylic on today ... but I think it is not an ideal way .I was not over the moon about it.
HI Robert ....yes I have done acrylics years ago .and things have changed so much ,I can,t keep up with them would you say gesso was a
water based acrylic , or an emullsion.. I have no idea ,, I believe pva is an acrylic ,, friend uses a none oiled hard board ,( one I believe is used as an under felt in certain instances for carpeting over,,, sold in large builders DIY stores .quite cheap and can be cut by them to say 2ft /x4ft.§to pack in the car boot.
Posted
In reply to Andre, some have used chalk in the mix, rather than talc - and there are other proprietary products you can buy, at considerable expense.......... the home-made approach might be sound, it might not; it's always going to be experimental. So on the occasions I presume to offer advice, it's going to be on the conservative side - in other words, it'll err on the side of caution, because I don't want to be responsible for someone losing their painting. Having said that - I've known others who use your method and it seems to work: doesn't mean I'd recommend it..... In theory, acrylic resin should bind the mix - but it must depend on the proportion of resin to other ingredients. In theory, polyfilla and PVA glue should be fine as substrate, because you try getting that stuff off when it's dried, and see how far you get. But I'll stick to recommended products made by artists' paint manufacturers because I sell paintings and I think I owe it to customers to use the most tried and tested products I can find. If you're painting solely for pleasure - well then, these surfaces and mixes should, again in theory, last for decades; it's just that you can't be sure what'll happen 100 years on.
I know a lot of you will say that 100 years is fine by you - but I still don't think that's quite the point if you're selling a painting. Worth remembering in all this though - acrylic paint hasn't been around for 100 years yet - we know oil paint lasts for centuries, though not without undergoing its own issues, that tempera and wax paintings can last just about forever, that watercolour lasts as long as the paper on which it's painted, and a lot of that is still in good nick five centuries on. Pastel, too, is durable stuff. We have the history to prove it. We haven't with acrylic - my only concern here therefore is that we need to be careful about methods which do have question marks over them, given we don't even know if acrylic paintings are going to be in prime condition for our grandchildren to see.
I strongly suspect they will be: when artists' materials fail, it's usually in their first 50 years - and I have a test acrylic, painted in Cryla, which is nearly that old and still looks as if it was painted yesterday (though the board is suffering a bit round the edges - yet the paint is still adhering to it: and here's what I mean - the weak point is the board, which is a cardboard composite of some kind with a gesso'd surface; so I'm averse from having weak points in the first place).
Posted
No more trouble than anyone else, I would have thought. It's perfectly possible to take, eg, a Loxley Canvas board and to paint on that with no preparation at all.
I have painted very satisfactorily on primed MDF, but yes, it can make for a heavy painting; now I've found Ampersand panels, which offer the smoothness I wanted with the MDF, I doubt that I'll use MDF again.
Posted
Interesting - well I think it is, hope we're not going to be accused of diving down the technological trap again..... meat and drink to some of us!
There was - I think still is - a range of vinyl paints: would it be Plaka, or am I confusing myself? They were marketed as cheap acrylics by some, possibly not the makers: this is the sort of thing that Phil Kendall, and maybe also Syd, would know about. I never used them because I've always been a bit picky about paint - believing in using the best I can lay hands on, and the vinyl paints looked weak and thin by comparison with Cryla acrylic, which was the major brand in the UK 40 or 50 years ago (and still a fine paint today, with a hugely wider range of wonderful colours, including metallics).
I was watching a video on YouTube by an acrylic painter - a Welsh gent, named Clive; he was telling us how much money he could save by making up his own acrylic materials, including gesso: and I'm sure he can, but I really don't do this - perhaps I'm too precious about it, but although I know as much as the next man about plastics, resins, the compatibility of mediums for making texture with professionally made additives (provided the next man isn't an expert on the chemical side of it), I don't make up materials myself or use substitutes. I've got to know my three basic ranges of acrylic products, I know what they can do and I trust them. So I stick to them. And IF you were to ask me - I'd suggest you all did the same, frankly. I don't believe in cutting corners with artists' materials.
I do know of acrylic painters, though, who use PVA glue in their work to create textures. Is there any good reason why that shouldn't work even in the long term? If there is, I don't know of it, but I still wouldn't do it: I'm not sure this isn't just neurosis, though!
I shall collect and treasure the word "acrylite" from David, by the way. I may drop it into conversation - "I'm an acrylite, you know...": some will probably bow, as if one's some sort of priest or minor divinity, others may sympathize and tell me "oh they can treat that now! There's a cream you can apply...", while others I suspect will smile nervously and edge, ever so carefully, away from me.
Posted
Looked them up - now called Pelikan Plaka paints, based on casein, a milk emulsion. Casein was very popular in the United States, but you rarely saw it here; I don't yet know if other brands are available, but in any event it's not the same vinyl paint as was available years ago; so I'm even less sure if I've got the brand name right.
I'd like to try casein paints one day - I don't think I want to use the vinyl paints, whatever they are or were called: largely because they looked to be too fluid for my preferred way of working. If I had enough money, I'd try the lot, though .... well, you all know where to send your donations: I'll brace myself for the incoming flood.